- Sep 15, 2013
- 291
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Just wanted to see if anyone has successfully treated a Paratyphoid outbreak in a loft, and what you did to cure it. So here is the background:
I got a late start on breeding this year, because is was building a new loft. Up until then I had not noticed many/any problems in my loft. But after I put a bunch of my fancy pigeons in the breeding loft and they started breeding, all kinds of problems started popping up: canker, loose poops, respiratory issues, and birds wasting away/going light. In addition I had issues with infertility, and babies dying in the nest, or shortly after weaning. Now as I list this all it sounds like clearly a Paratyphoid outbreak, along with secondary infections because of their weakened states, but at the time, I didn't realize all these were linked, so I just treated with a 3-way medicine for worms, canker, and cocci. I thought the babies dying happened from the parents not covering their babies at night, because they would often be cool too the touch not long before they died. I now think this was not the case but that they had paratyphoid, and in the babies it kills very fast. The 3-way did not really help, and around that time I posted on a different forum about my issues and I also had a bird start showing twisted neck, while another got wings boils, and another got a boil on a leg joint. After that I realized I was clearly dealing with paratyphoid, probably brought in by some birds who were carriers, but not showing symptoms until the stress of breeding season, and probably complicated by other issues like canker, etc.
So anyway, after I realized that was probably what it was I began treating with Sulmet, because I had it on hand and Baytril is hard to get and very expensive the treat an entire flock with... it did seem to help some of my adult birds, but my babies were still dying, and as soon as I stopped treating after 2 weeks they seemed to relapse. I was also leery of using Baytril because I heard is could cause abnormalities in babies and I had some nestlings at the time. After I realized it was paratyphoid I didn't want them breeding anymore, but while I was on vacation I had some birds start sitting, and I didn't want to throw away egg that were half way to hatching. On the other thread I posted on a different site I got a severe tongue lashing for letting them keep the developing eggs, so maybe that was mistake, but they were less than a week from hatching by the time I was going to throw them out so I felt bad doing that. So anyway I currently have a few pairs with (oops!) young babies but I was still loosing a lot of young birds and even started loosing a couple adult birds, so I basically said "screw it" I just need to treat with Baytril. So I ordered a 10% solution and started treating a week ago, along with a Doxy/Tylan for the sneezing they have also been having.
So my questions relate to dosage: based on various dosages I read online the first 4 days I treated with about 1 tsp (5 ml/ccs) per gallon since it is summer and they are drinking lots of water. After that I reduced the dosage to about 3ml/cc per gallon. I plan to give it for 3 weeks since supposedly this is the length required to cure birds of the carrier state. As of now I haven't noticed much difference in the birds, in fact some of the sicker ones have died in the last week.
- So does this seem like a good dosage and length of time to treat?
- Will the fact the some birds are still feeding young affect how much of the Baytril they absorb? Will the babies not get enough Baytril in the milk and then reinfect their parents or should they get enough through their parents to be treated? Will the parents get enough even while feeding? Should I use a higher concentration because of this?
- And finally should I vaccinate after treating? How soon after treating? All my birds, just adults I plan to keep for breeding, or only the birds I fly?
- After the birds have been through the full round of treatment and vaccinated is it safe to consider the Paratyphoid eradicated? (I have Virkon S to clean the coop with)
- Also, I for sure at least have some birds who also have canker and I think also Cocci, can I treat with Ronidazole in the water at the same time as the Baytril or should I wait until after I am done treating with Baytril? What about Amprolium, is that safe to combine with Baytril? I just want to knock out everything that is ailing them!
I would appreciate any insight anyone has, but please be kind. I am trying my best, and I have only had pigeons about a year and though I have kept almost every type of poultry you can think of, at least IME so far pigeons seem far more vulnerable to illness, and their illnesses seem far more difficult to identify than other birds I have kept. On another site some people have been very rude blaming me for this, when I feel like I have been trying everything I can to help my poor pijjies!
(BTW I have another loft of birds that fly who were not breeding, who are not really showing symptoms, but I am treating that loft as well since they have been exposed to the pigeons from the other loft.)
I got a late start on breeding this year, because is was building a new loft. Up until then I had not noticed many/any problems in my loft. But after I put a bunch of my fancy pigeons in the breeding loft and they started breeding, all kinds of problems started popping up: canker, loose poops, respiratory issues, and birds wasting away/going light. In addition I had issues with infertility, and babies dying in the nest, or shortly after weaning. Now as I list this all it sounds like clearly a Paratyphoid outbreak, along with secondary infections because of their weakened states, but at the time, I didn't realize all these were linked, so I just treated with a 3-way medicine for worms, canker, and cocci. I thought the babies dying happened from the parents not covering their babies at night, because they would often be cool too the touch not long before they died. I now think this was not the case but that they had paratyphoid, and in the babies it kills very fast. The 3-way did not really help, and around that time I posted on a different forum about my issues and I also had a bird start showing twisted neck, while another got wings boils, and another got a boil on a leg joint. After that I realized I was clearly dealing with paratyphoid, probably brought in by some birds who were carriers, but not showing symptoms until the stress of breeding season, and probably complicated by other issues like canker, etc.
So anyway, after I realized that was probably what it was I began treating with Sulmet, because I had it on hand and Baytril is hard to get and very expensive the treat an entire flock with... it did seem to help some of my adult birds, but my babies were still dying, and as soon as I stopped treating after 2 weeks they seemed to relapse. I was also leery of using Baytril because I heard is could cause abnormalities in babies and I had some nestlings at the time. After I realized it was paratyphoid I didn't want them breeding anymore, but while I was on vacation I had some birds start sitting, and I didn't want to throw away egg that were half way to hatching. On the other thread I posted on a different site I got a severe tongue lashing for letting them keep the developing eggs, so maybe that was mistake, but they were less than a week from hatching by the time I was going to throw them out so I felt bad doing that. So anyway I currently have a few pairs with (oops!) young babies but I was still loosing a lot of young birds and even started loosing a couple adult birds, so I basically said "screw it" I just need to treat with Baytril. So I ordered a 10% solution and started treating a week ago, along with a Doxy/Tylan for the sneezing they have also been having.
So my questions relate to dosage: based on various dosages I read online the first 4 days I treated with about 1 tsp (5 ml/ccs) per gallon since it is summer and they are drinking lots of water. After that I reduced the dosage to about 3ml/cc per gallon. I plan to give it for 3 weeks since supposedly this is the length required to cure birds of the carrier state. As of now I haven't noticed much difference in the birds, in fact some of the sicker ones have died in the last week.
- So does this seem like a good dosage and length of time to treat?
- Will the fact the some birds are still feeding young affect how much of the Baytril they absorb? Will the babies not get enough Baytril in the milk and then reinfect their parents or should they get enough through their parents to be treated? Will the parents get enough even while feeding? Should I use a higher concentration because of this?
- And finally should I vaccinate after treating? How soon after treating? All my birds, just adults I plan to keep for breeding, or only the birds I fly?
- After the birds have been through the full round of treatment and vaccinated is it safe to consider the Paratyphoid eradicated? (I have Virkon S to clean the coop with)
- Also, I for sure at least have some birds who also have canker and I think also Cocci, can I treat with Ronidazole in the water at the same time as the Baytril or should I wait until after I am done treating with Baytril? What about Amprolium, is that safe to combine with Baytril? I just want to knock out everything that is ailing them!
I would appreciate any insight anyone has, but please be kind. I am trying my best, and I have only had pigeons about a year and though I have kept almost every type of poultry you can think of, at least IME so far pigeons seem far more vulnerable to illness, and their illnesses seem far more difficult to identify than other birds I have kept. On another site some people have been very rude blaming me for this, when I feel like I have been trying everything I can to help my poor pijjies!
(BTW I have another loft of birds that fly who were not breeding, who are not really showing symptoms, but I am treating that loft as well since they have been exposed to the pigeons from the other loft.)
