Little chap struggling

[Shabana]

heya
I hope you can help.

I've had a very successful hatch for my first time with an incubator and got 12/12 hatch.

All are fine except one little baby who bled a little at birth from his tummy button which is pronounced.
He has remained in the incubator and I have given him sugar water on a q tip.

This morning he's a tiny bit more active. He had shuffled off his paper towel during the night and is a bit more kicky but I've not seen him stand.

I'm anxious that he'll need something more than the water and so I'm off to get some nutri drops.
Is there anything else I can give ?

He's sleeping a lot and not really supporting his head to well.
Kinda like the rest were initially for the first few hours.

Thanks in advance

Shabana x

 

[chooks4life]

Hi there!

You don't say how old he is, which is something handy to know. If he's under 48 hours he will still be absorbing nutrition from his yolk sac within his belly, and not eating now is pretty normal, but bantams sometimes hatch hungry and want to get straight to eating and that's fine too. If he's over 48 hours he definitely needs food, and because he had a hard hatch I would give him special high quality food, not just the standard, as he's got catching up to do and will need some special support.

You may be able to get some premixed vitamin/mineral/probiotic formula for chooks from a produce store, but I live in Australia so don't know what's available where you are, sorry. Can't advise you there.

Instead of sugar I would offer him honey, raw if you can get it; it's got probiotics, antibiotics, enzymes, vitamins, minerals, and so much more in it and can sustain them at a pinch for a fair while, as well as being very healing. Easier to give it to them mixed with water in a cup or small container for a chick, than to give it neat, obviously.

You could give him normal chick starter, personally I don't use that though. But it would likely be the normal advice given to most people in your position. I give them the same grain mix and proteins the adults get, with some extras, though for chicks with health issues hardboiled egg can be very helpful.

Also I offer chicks millet seeds too, or 'budgie/canary/cage bird mix', anything of decent quality containing panicum or millet, really.

I also give mine freshly minced raw garlic in their first feed. Competitive exclusion is the term used for referring to the colonizing of the chicks' guts; whatever bacteria and microorganisms can get in there and set up shop first will often remain dominant over their counterparts, so you don't want the pathogenic or freeloading, opportunistic stuff to set up shop first as the good stuff can then find it hard to shift it.

Unfortunately sugar feeds that sort of opportunistic pathogen, but under circumstances like a bleedout of sizable nature it may well have saved his life and shouldn't be anything to worry about.

Sounds like he has a partial umbilical prolapse maybe, but it should correct given time. Maybe he had only just absorbed his yolk sac when he hatched, that should also correct, given time. Sometimes even babies hatched with their guts partially outside the body can heal up in a matter of hours. Babies are generally great at healing.

If he has nothing to communicate with and to stimulate him, I would give him company, even if it's just the sight and sound of the other chicks with some kind of barrier between them. Some chicks will suffer failure to thrive if not given something to bond to, and will just fade. Those most dependent on external stimulation to activate them, or provoke normal responses in them, will without such stimulation just sleep more and more until they're too far gone to save. Commercial breeds tend to be better at being independent babies than those from family lines more used to natural rearing, with a mother hen.

Best wishes and good luck with the little fellow.

 

[Shabana]

Heya, Thank you for your reply.

He's 36 hours old at the time of writing. This morning he was a tiny bit brighter, couldn't really hold his head up but flopped and shuffled a bit.
I took your advice and popped another chick in with him, one that was, like him, one of the last to hatch.
I got some nettex poultry drops and made a mashed hard boiled egg mixture with the drops and a little warm water and I've fed them both this every 11/2 to 2hours throughout the day.
This evening he can stand a little - not for long he's very wobbly but right direction..

Because he's still in the incubator he does sleep a lot I guess as its so warm, but I did try him for an hour with his siblings under the ecoglow but when I checked him he felt too cool and he wasn't as reactive so he's back in the incubator for the night and I hope tomorrow he'll be a step further on.

I have a good quality chick crumble but he's very tiny (sablepoot) so I,m having to smash them to dust and then mix with water and use a syringe. We don't have anything other than the drops in the UK without visiting a vet.

His tummy button as you said is already looking a bit better and I think you were right - he had literally just absorbed his yolk.

Thankyou again for your help. I hope he will be ok. I feel quite attached to him already ..

 

[chooks4life]

You're welcome. It does sound like things are improving. Always good to hear.

Sometimes chicks that suffered blood loss during hatching can take a few days to get up to speed with their siblings, so even if he's still weak in the next few days I wouldn't worry as long as he's showing consistent improvement, even if it's only mild. I've had some chicks survive quite a huge amount of blood loss before. It may stunt him a little, but otherwise should hopefully be ok.

Best wishes.

 

[Shabana]

Thankyou so much
Another day over another day stronger

He's strong enough to keep warm under the eco glow with his siblings tonight. He's not taken any food or water himself but to be fair I've been stuffing his beak every 2 hours so he's probably full. Been doing a mixture of egg , chick crumb and vitamins.
I hope for him to feed himself.

I gave another chick who is walking on one foot and one hock and I understand this might be a deficiency? So I'm giving her the nutri drops which have riboflavin in them. So fingers crossed.
The others seem fine and are bombing about

Thankyou again xx

 

[Shabana]

This morning he seems not too good
I fed him with the syringe and he barely opened his eyes. He's in his own little nest under the ecoglow as the others are treading on him. I'm hoping after his feed this morning he might perk up but if not I am aware I shouldn't let him suffer

How long can a chick be like this and still survive ? He hatched sat lunch time and now (I am in the UK) its Monday morning. He hasn't walked or fed himself at all. It's very difficult to get him to take anything other than a liquid which is more of a reflex bless him...

Am I being cruel and prolonging it ? I just don't know what to do.

 

[chooks4life]

I gave another chick who is walking on one foot and one hock and I understand this might be a deficiency? So I'm giving her the nutri drops which have riboflavin in them. So fingers crossed.
Might be a deficiency, that's usually the most common cause once you've ruled out slippery flooring or accident during hatching. If it is due to deficiency then it will heal fairly quickly now you're supplementing.

This morning he seems not too good
I fed him with the syringe and he barely opened his eyes. He's in his own little nest under the ecoglow as the others are treading on him. I'm hoping after his feed this morning he might perk up but if not I am aware I shouldn't let him suffer

Sorry to hear that. Maybe something is wrong with him that's not obvious, something beyond his hatching issue but maybe linked to it.

Chicks that suffered blood loss but didn't die outright I have only seen thrive beyond that point, within a matter of hours they are acting fairly normal if a bit weak and dozy and by the third day he certainly should be acting much better, not worse.

Is there any infection in the bellybutton?

How long can a chick be like this and still survive ? He hatched sat lunch time and now (I am in the UK) its Monday morning. He hasn't walked or fed himself at all. It's very difficult to get him to take anything other than a liquid which is more of a reflex bless him...

Am I being cruel and prolonging it ? I just don't know what to do.

Some chicks have a very rough few days and then take off like nothing was wrong, it's hard to say one way or another but you're doing everything you can so I certainly wouldn't consider your actions cruel.

It doesn't sound good, obviously, it's your call if you feel like ending it is the best option.

If something is so wrong with him that he can't live then he will die fairly soon anyway, they don't keep going too long at such a tender age if they're 'nonviable'. Given that he bled a fair bit, he could be expected to be weak at this point but not going downhill, especially not with the extra care you're giving him.

It may be possible that he got a blood infection, but that would kill quickly if so. I don't know what's up with the little fellow unfortunately but it really does sound like something more than the bloody navel was wrong.

Best wishes and good luck.

 

[Shabana]

Heya

Just wanted to say a big thank you for being there and for helping.
My little chap passed away in his sleep just over an hour ago. I'm sad but then relieved for him too, in case he was suffering.

I'm not sure about the other chick her hock looks a little swollen and red (only a tiny bit) and this could be just with her walking on it.
Her other leg seems fine.
I've continued with the drops today in case its a deficiency I guess they wont hurt if its an injury.
They are so tiny its hard to know what to do - I tried to vet wrap it with a tiny strip to try to support it and help her stand but that just sent her face first when she tried to move..

uurghhhh !

 

[chooks4life]

Sorry for your loss. At least he's not suffering, as you say.

About the other chick, they can take a while to get used to any walking aids so falling on her face to start with is very common. If they don't get the hang of it within an hour it might not be workable.

Does she stand at all? It can help sometimes to confine them to something like a hand towel rolled into a tube, so they can practice standing up and can sit down but can't walk around in any incorrect way, because they can't walk at all.

I assume you have PoultryPedia already, but will share the link just in case.
Quote: This might also come in handy, if not now then maybe later, just for general info:
Quote:
Good luck. Sometimes leg problems come good despite looking hopeless, and sometimes they go bad despite looking very minor. I've had both sorts. Hope it works out for you.

Best wishes.

 

[Shabana]

Heya
Thanks for the link !

She does stand but her leg trembles. It's not so much out to the side and although she mostly walks on that hock she walks properly on the other foot.
I think it's a deficiency or an injury. The tremble could be nerve damage ? She's having her vit drops twice a day and she chooses to sit more than the others but is eating and drinking well.
She's 4 days old today so I'm hoping it will get better but I've got a couple of hens whom I've adopted with difficulties and they reside with the baby flock so they don't get picked on so she can always have a home there if thinks don't improve

Thanks again for your brilliant support.
Xx