Roosters, predators, breeding set up...

emorems0

Songster
May 21, 2014
644
108
181
Beaver County, PA
Going to be lots of info here to preface my questions, so... here goes...

I have a 1 year old flock of RIR and Black Australorps including a BA rooster. He was very friendly and good with people all of last year. This spring, something changed in his behavior and lots of things changed in our/his back yard so I'm not sure if the new people aggression is environmental/fixable or just his personality. We really like him and would like to breed some more Black Australorps, but I have kids and will not put up with an aggressive rooster and I certainly don't want to use him for breeding if he has aggression in his genetics.

New things that may have impacted his aggression... Lice, although he was not nearly as affected as his hens, I didn't even treat him because he seemed total fine - I think it was mostly a problem in the nest boxes. He only had 4 hens through the winter and spring and recently lost another. He didn't see/interact with people very much at all through the whole winter because it was so cold and he forgot his rank. Hunger... I had kept the food and water in the coop in the winter and did not move it back out into the run in the spring.. I just didn't seem like they were going through food very fast and I think they just weren't going back in the coop to eat. We got a bunch of new birds this spring cornish cross, Delaware, and Dark Cornish stayed in a chicken tractor and free ranged around the main coop/run, plus we also got 4 turkeys which free ranged and stayed in the tractor with the meat birds.

Since processing the cornish cross, we've moved the Delaware, Cornish, and Turkeys into the main run (but they all roost in a tree/bush rather than the coop and the turkeys often fly over the fence and free range in the yard). We had some predator attacks during the transition period that got all but one of my Delaware, the attacks took place right outside of the main run. Romeo (our BA roo) was doing better for a period after the transition when we opened the run up so it doubled in size and everyone was mixed together. We started going in and feeding him by hand (well, from a cup of food that we were holding). He seemed to be back to his normal self, not caring if we were walking around in the run or caring about what we were doing. Then all of the sudden he was being aggressive again... maybe the predator came back but was unsuccessful? All of the birds were freaked out that afternoon.

Yesterday I removed the laying hens from the roost so I could bathe them as a follow up for the lice treatment. I kept them inside to dry overnight and then put them in the chicken tractor to give them a break from the coop where lice might still be hiding out and from Romeo (they have been overbred since he only has 3 mature hens at the moment and had a good deal of feather loss on their backs and wings/elbows). I wanted to be able to monitor the lice situation since I can't easily catch them to check their butts in the big run and also take them out of the pecking order for a while since they tend to beat up the younger chickens and especially the turkeys. Romeo is NOT happy and I totally understand it right now because I took his girls away. He paces along the run fence and won't eat at all in the main run. He has managed to fly over the run fence and then paces around outside the chicken tractor, foraging a little and being a jerk to any people who come around. I think my plan to give the girls a break outside of the coop is back firing, I can't deal with Romeo being mad about not being with his girls. But I also am hesitant to put them back together again. My BA hen is the worst off... I don't know if her feathers are just brittle, but she is practically bald on her back. I bought saddles a while ago but it doesn't seem to have helped her, maybe the lice were hiding under there but she only had eggs on the bottom, maybe her feathers are just brittle and the saddle made it worse? At any rate, I can't have Romeo trying to mount her with a bald back. Not sure what to do with her because I don't want her in there alone either.

Well this is turning into all about Romeo and my hens, but there is one more piece... I want to eventually breed the Delaware and Dark Cornish for a self sustaining meat bird. I figured they could all share the same coop and run and I'd just move some over to a breeding pen whenever I wanted to collect eggs, but I did my math and my main coop is really only big enough for 8 chickens. I'm going to have to add a second coop somehow before winter rolls around. I'm not sure if I want the Delaware or the Dark Cornish to be the rooster for the meat project. I was leaning toward Delaware because they are supposed to be mild tempered, but we lost both of our little Delaware roos to the fox/raccoon. I kind of want to get a new Delaware roo and keep a Dark Cornish roo for now so that I can see what I get from breeding and then make a decision, but that's way too many roosters for a shared run, right? The Delaware and Dark Cornish are all about 16 weeks now and Romeo doesn't seem to care about them at all. If I brought home an adult Delaware rooster, it would probably be a battle and I'd need to divide the run again probably.

And now I'm at the end and I don't even really know what my question is... the original plan was to keep everyone consolidated for the winter and then separate the meat birds from the laying birds during the warm/breeding seasons. I just can't figure out the logistics and I can't decide if I should keep Romeo or put him in a soup pot. He really is a good rooster and didn't show any people aggression until he was a year old this spring (and with all the other factors going on). I could replace him with a Delaware roo, but then I can't breed any pure BAs (plus we hatched Romeo and we're a little attached).
 
I vote KEEP ROMEO.

WISHING YOU BEST.
thumbsup.gif



PS. Hey Romeo.. You owe me one.. LOL LOL LOL
 
I don't have an aggressive rooster right now, but I find that most roosters become a little more testy in the spring.

I would clean out the nest boxes and spray them with permethrin. I might sprinkle diatomaceous earth (food grade) in the bottom of the boxes before filling them with clean shavings, then I would put the hens back in. If you outfit your hens with saddles, it will keep their backs from getting cut up. Their feathers won't likely grow back until they molt. You may want to treat the rooster for lice, since he could transmit them to the hens. Also, get a cement tray (or some other wide container/ sand box) and fill it with clean, dry sand, dry ashes, and permethrin powder (poultry dust) mixed together. Put it in the coop, in a dry place and they will use it for dust bathing and keep a check on those lice.

I have not had any luck with two adult roosters sharing a space, even those raised together. Mine have adjacent runs, and I had to hang shade cloth on the fence just so they would not fight through it.

Good luck. I hope Romeo settles down.
 
Whew!
It's hard, that first year or two.
The learning curve is steep and you've taken on a lot...especially if your coop will only hold 8 birds.

First off, lice do not live in the structure only on the birds, but DE in the nests bottoms is a good preventative.
I've found the best time to check the birds is to take them off the roost at night, I work alone so
I wear a head light and cover the birds head with small towel while I examine them on my lap.
Whatever you treat with it needs to be repeated in 7-10 days to get the newly hatched.

Romeo is upset because of all the chaos, predators, new birds, separation from his hens, etc.
Understandable from his perspective.

I think your biggest problem is facilities, to do what you propose you need several(or more) coop/run setups.
I would get squared away with a tight coops and runs that are secure from predators...one for the chickens and one for the turkeys..before winter hits.
Get your hen population up to about 8-10 for Romeo, keep them together and secure from predators and the turkeys.
Free range chickens and turkeys on alternate days, if there is a predator event keep them confined until it moves along.

That sounds rather rigid, but that's just how I think. Birds are much easier to manage if they have good, safe housing.
Hopefully some of it helped.

Can you post pics of your coops and runs?
 
I am thinking that space may be an issue too. I don't know what the recommended space for 4 turkeys is, but I am assuming it is a great deal more than chickens. Full grown, turkeys are a big bird.

Chickens don't like change, and with the predators, your adding birds, then processing, different chicken tracktors that is a lot of change.

I think you may have bitten off a bit more than you can chew in your excitment of this new hobby. Most of us have had this problem ;). Take a deep breath, and say to yourself, I have years to do this hobby. So put off getting a new Delaware rooster for a while. (I loved the delaware birds, but in my area that white birds was a target for day time predation) You are not having problems with Romeo and the younger roosters yet. But could very well have problems SOON, they are getting close to maturity. Sometimes the younger roosters accept the dominance, and sometimes they will fight for it.

You are really trying to do 4 projects at once, and I think it is stressing you! My advice is decide which of the four projects you want to do now, and cull the rest, to fit the coop/run that you have now. Then as you build, add to it.

Turkeys, meat birds, pure BA's, layers. Pick one of these, get that going first. Then next year, after you have it built, add another project. Eventually you probably can have all of them, but it will go better if you do it step by step.

Mrs K
 
Last edited:
Everyone else seems to have cleared everything up for you.

But just my advice for roosters as I had 3 last year and currently have 7 that'll be coming to age around August.
Make them respect you, you are the big boss of the coop. If one comes after you grab him, hold him down for all the hens to see, don't stop until he stops struggling. Also pick him up and carry him around under your arm, just keep him there. And if you have younger roosters you want to keep, handle them as much as possible.

And it sounds like you may need to trim Romeo's spurs as well, if they are too long they will hurt the hens. There is plenty of info on that on here.
Also put the saddles back on the hens, make sure they fit right. Even if it doesn't look like it's helping, it probably will.


Good luck with your new hobby!
 
Thank you... Yes, we did have a lot of additions this year. Last year was our year for layers and we wanted to add meat birds this year (they were designated for the tractor as temporary housing since they are processed so early). I decided I wanted a long term meat project and figured we'd only over winter a few birds with the hens essentially being added to our layer flock since Delaware are good layers as well. There are only 4 chickens (Romeo and his 3 hens) in the coop right now; all the younger birds (4 dark cornish, 1 delaware, 1 orpington) roost in the tree in the run. Then I started questioning the roosters required for this venture. We are going to process any dark cornish that we don't want to over winter for the meat project (looks like there are two male and two female right now so we'll be processing at least two).

The turkeys just sort of happened upon us. We have 4 bourbon reds, they are about 18 weeks and spend most of their time outside of the run free ranging. They may all be processed by autumn, we aren't sure yet if we'll keep a breeding pair through winter (we may actually have 4 boys, haha) but I do have a plan to finish their shed and run a new line of fencing for their separate run. The turkeys always follow me into the chicken run at meal times but spend most of their time out in the yard.

I've been trying to treat the lice with non-toxic methods because I don't like the idea of pesticide residues on our egg shells. I've added DE to the coop, nest boxes, and the area where they dust bathe. I've sprayed their bottoms and the nest boxes with vinegar and peppermint which seemed to help a lot despite not doing a very thorough job. Then a week later I gave them a lice bath and they seem much better now. One hen (the BA who is so bald on her back and butt) still has some lice eggs that I must have missed. I do have some poultry dust (with permethrin) that I may use on just her. Romeo is not affected by the lice at all, just the three hens.

Thank you for the advice on managing Romeo's aggression... I've gone back and forth about how to react to it. It seemed like when I fight him back and pin him down it just makes him want to keep challenging us, like maybe next time he'll win... and my 4 year old isn't able to do that at all. I have a big green watering can that I pinned him down with once and he ran away from it for a while like it was a dominant rooster... now he challenges that too. We've had the best luck hand feeding him, keeping a cup of food between him and us. Maybe a combo approach would work for us, I like the idea of picking him up and carrying him around. We haven't done that since last year since he's gotten so big. He did get me with his spurs last week, they are still pretty blunt and didn't break the skin despite me being in shorts, although I imagine they do get sharper with time. I wondered about the possibility of trimming them (and tom turkeys apparently get big sharp spurs too... something to think about if we end up with a breeding pair to overwinter).
 
I keep lots of roosters and breed. When not in breeding mode, then isolate males from hens and even split males out from each other when practical. I keep males in the high risk areas and always have backup males as choice for breeders may not be made until day before use. Look into pens used for gamefowl as they are small, low cost, and easy to move. With roosters of suitable temperament you can even use such pens to create single matings without causing undo harm to hens.

Pens like shown below used mostly for broody hens while a taller variety is used for males and hens from which hatching eggs are collected.

1000
 
So... okay, here's my thought...

I plan to build a separate shed & run for the turkeys, just waiting on Hubs to bring some pallets home from work; so that will separate the turkeys. What I have left to figure out is the layers and meat project birds...

My coop holds 8 birds (it's 32 sq feet with 8 feet of roost space and 3 nest boxes), I wouldn't want to squeeze more birds than that in there in the winter. So, in order to have 8-10 hens for Romeo, I'll need a secondary coop, I'm thinking a simple coop (for about 4 birds) down at the opposite end of the run. Depending on how my dark Cornish roos behave as they mature I may be able to keep one in the smaller coop. I should probably hold off on replacing my Delaware roo for now even with a second coop... unless I make a separate run and do that bachelor pad thing, but I'm not crazy about that idea.

Right now Romeo has 2 RIR and 1 BA. A Delaware hen, orpington hen, and potentially 2 dark Cornish hens are about 16 weeks old but he has shown no interest in them and blocks them from the food dishes. That's 7 current/future hens. I'm planning on picking up two mature Delaware hens next month which will make 9.
 
I keep lots of roosters and breed. When not in breeding mode, then isolate males from hens and even split males out from each other when practical. I keep males in the high risk areas and always have backup males as choice for breeders may not be made until day before use. Look into pens used for gamefowl as they are small, low cost, and easy to move. With roosters of suitable temperament you can even use such pens to create single matings without causing undo harm to hens.

Pens like shown below used mostly for broody hens while a taller variety is used for males and hens from which hatching eggs are collected.


What about winter? I could potentially use my tractor as a bachelor pad for the meat project roosters and just keep Romeo and all the hens in the main coop unless I want to collect eggs... but it gets COLD here in PA. I was thinking I could use the future second coop as a breeding pen in the summer so I could divide the run if needed for chicks... but what to do with the meat project roosters in the winter?
 

New posts New threads Active threads

Back
Top Bottom