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Cecal Worms - Page 2

post #11 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogCabinChicks View Post

The directions on the bag and everywhere on the internet do not give a time frame for dosing. I have a flock of 120-- that would be $629 over the 6 weeks period -- can you point me to the research?  I must use it, as my turkeys got blackhead from the chickens....  hit.gif
You can take some fresh droppings into your vet locally to get a diagnosis of what worms they carry. It might save money by first doing this. Cecal worms normally do not present a real threat to chickens. But turkeys can get blackhead disease from them, so it is good not to raise turkeys with chickens. Valbazen, SafeGuard, and Levamisole are drugs that will kill cecal worms. Hygromycin B may only control worms, and has to be taken for weeks.
post #12 of 17

@LogCabinChicks

 

I'm so sorry to hear you have had a blackhead outbreak in your turkeys. It is so frustrating that the chickens benefit from the turkeys (often offering protection against the more lethal chicken mareks's with the milder turkey marke's) but the turkeys in turn often suffer with blackhead perpetuated by the cecal worms in the chickens.

 

Information is scant. I know. I scoured the internet for hours to find some sort of guideline as to how long you feed Hygromycin B. At the time, I had found one source, from a Canadian veterinary symposium powerpoint that suggested 2 to 4 weeks feeding for most worm types, up to 6 weeks to remove cecal. Repeat seasonally. Unfortunately that link is no longer available.

 

Elanco, the producer of Hygromycin B, views this wormer as a control agent and meant to be continuous feed....as in fed all the time... to control worms vs. eradicating them. 

http://www.elanco.us/products-services/poultry/hygromix.aspx

 

Most backyard owners simply cannot afford that kind of "control."  From what I had gleaned at the time, Rooster Booster had internal response memos that most of their small holder customers used it for 2 to 4 weeks seasonally.

 

In trying to re-create that research, I have found Rooster Booster's official statement now is that it takes several weeks to slowly rid worms, with capillary worms taking up to 6 weeks. 

http://roosterboosterproducts.com/faq.php

 

I can give the following research presentation for (A. galli) which is continuous feed for 8 weeks for round worms in poultry. One resource study (Shuma, et al, 1958) stated that Hygromycin B was more easily effective on cecal than round worms, so I can see we'd be back to 6 weeks suggestion.

http://slideplayer.com/slide/4060410/   (See slide #4...this does not say anything about Hygromycin B for cecal)

http://www.stalosan.com/media/7110/Helminthologia.pdf (page 9)

 

As stated in that post, Durvet has a product that is substantially cheaper than the Rooster Booster Multi Wormer. Strike III can be found in feed stores. I have purchased it as cheaply as $13 for the 1lb package. However, that quickly adds up with large flocks.

 

There are off label choices that I will list below. Off label use has always been a grey area for the small holder, and each owner must weigh whether or not they feel comfortable using off label products. It appears this will only become more difficult as new regulations take effect in 2017. I will link a good FARAD article below to help your decision whether to use off label or stick with FDA approved sources.

 

FARAD Literature

https://vet.osu.edu/sites/vet.osu.edu/files/documents/extension/Egg%20residue%20considerations%20during%20the%20treatment%20of%20backyard%20poultry%202015.pdf

 

If the eggs/meat are for your benefit only, there is no problem. However (and with the number you've mentioned I suspicion you fall into this category), if you sell eggs or meat to the public, even farm direct, technically, according to FARAD, you are legally responsible for any residue that might be found in the eggs or meat should they be inspected. (It would be an FDA violation). However, small holders are not inspected. (Ffewer than 3,000 birds I believe is considered below inspection levels). So each owner must judge whether or not this is a risk worth taking. I can say that if anyone got sick and they found residue in your eggs, you could have a legal violation and challenge. That risk may be very minimal, but obviously the safest route is to remain in FDA approval if you sell meat and eggs.

 

Here are alternative choices for treatments for cecal worms. (Of course, in the US, only Hygromycin B is FDA approved for layers of eggs for human consumption)

http://www.poultrydvm.com/condition/poultry-cecal-worms

 

I personally have chosen to use Durvet Strike III for 3 weeks quarterly. Medically, it is best to rotate meds to prevent resistance in worms. However, as stated in the FARAD, off label use may become more complicated in 2017. But as of now, if any off label product is used, just make sure any residue has cleared, and FARAD gives some suggestions for some of the off label wormers.

 

Good luck with your flock.

LofMc


Edited by Lady of McCamley - 6/9/16 at 1:53pm
Keeper of 15+ layers, common to specialty types for colorful egg baskets. Brooding Queens: The Queen Mum Silkie and 2 Bantam Cochin handmaids. Preparing to breed my own Olive Eggers! Barnevelder roo with Splash Marans and CL for egg color and color coding :D Former 4H leader, GDB Puppy Raiser, Homeschooler. Current ESL tutor. Proud new grandma. Loving wife to a very tolerant husband.
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Keeper of 15+ layers, common to specialty types for colorful egg baskets. Brooding Queens: The Queen Mum Silkie and 2 Bantam Cochin handmaids. Preparing to breed my own Olive Eggers! Barnevelder roo with Splash Marans and CL for egg color and color coding :D Former 4H leader, GDB Puppy Raiser, Homeschooler. Current ESL tutor. Proud new grandma. Loving wife to a very tolerant husband.
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post #13 of 17

Thank you so much for all of this information!  I will have to stay on label and dig into my pocket book....

 

now, I'm off to read the links you found me.  Wonderful! Just wonderful! :bow:caf

3 Dachshunds, 1 Pug, 120 mixed breed laying hens, 4 turkeys, 100 Freedom Rangers !  Started with 6 hens two years ago, just wanted a small flock...now we have a working Poultry Farm.  Life is good. 
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3 Dachshunds, 1 Pug, 120 mixed breed laying hens, 4 turkeys, 100 Freedom Rangers !  Started with 6 hens two years ago, just wanted a small flock...now we have a working Poultry Farm.  Life is good. 
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post #14 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggcessive View Post


You can take some fresh droppings into your vet locally to get a diagnosis of what worms they carry. It might save money by first doing this. Cecal worms normally do not present a real threat to chickens. But turkeys can get blackhead disease from them, so it is good not to raise turkeys with chickens. Valbazen, SafeGuard, and Levamisole are drugs that will kill cecal worms. Hygromycin B may only control worms, and has to be taken for weeks.

I was under the misguided information that only poults could get blackhead, these are my 2-3 year old heritage and have been with the chickens for over a year.  My favorite hen was lost to blackhead last week while I was trying to figure out why she was so lifeless...I found the dreaded scrambled egg poo.

 

I know that I am basically done for now...3+ years those eggs will be in my soil and I will have to continually treat/de worm the very big flock that I have. There is so much information out there it gets confusing when you're trying to treat 100+ birds.  Obviously oral dosing doesn't work for me.  And a few of those that you mentioned are not safe for sale eggs, trust me I 've read so much, in the last few days, I'm totally confused now.  :barnie

 

I will take the droppings to my vet, thank you for the suggestion. 

3 Dachshunds, 1 Pug, 120 mixed breed laying hens, 4 turkeys, 100 Freedom Rangers !  Started with 6 hens two years ago, just wanted a small flock...now we have a working Poultry Farm.  Life is good. 
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3 Dachshunds, 1 Pug, 120 mixed breed laying hens, 4 turkeys, 100 Freedom Rangers !  Started with 6 hens two years ago, just wanted a small flock...now we have a working Poultry Farm.  Life is good. 
Reply
post #15 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose95 View Post

In the last week and a half I have treated my 3 birds with Wazine and given an oral broad spectrum parasiticide Interceptor (Milbamycin Oxime) given to me by a veterinarian. It has been 8 days since the Interceptor was given and today I see worms in Cecal poop again! I read that they dont cause any known harm to Chickens so is this something I really need to retreat for?? sad.png

Cecal Worms The Cecal worm is a common parasite of backyard poultry flocks. As the name implies, the cecal worm inhabits the cecum of the bird. Cecal worms cause little or no damage to chicken flocks but the cecal worm can carry the organism that causes blackhead disease in turkeys. Earthworms ingest the infected cecal worm egg from poultry litter; turkeys that consume the earthworms become infected with the blackhead organism. Turkeys can also become infected with the blackhead organism from direct oral contact with the infected cecal worms. Turkeys and chickens shouldn’t be housed together and turkeys shouldn’t range where chickens have ranged. Leviamisole and Ivermectin are both effective in the control of cecal worms, though both require a veterinarian’s prescription for use in poultry. Capillaria: Capillary or Thread Worms There are several species of capillaria in poultry; they affect different parts of the bird and cause a variety of symptoms. Species that occur in the crop and esophagus cause thickening and inflammation of the mucus membranes. Turkeys and game birds may suffer severe losses due to these parasites. Other species of capillaria are prevalent in the lower intestinal tract and cause inflammation, hemorrhage and erosion of the intestinal lining. Severe infestation can lead to death. Some species of thread worms have a direct life cycle and some an indirect lifecycle. Control of threadworms that have an intermediate host can be achieved by the control of the alternate host. Capillaria are a common problem of deep litter houses; heavy infestations result in reduced growth, reduced egg production and reduced fertility. If present in large numbers thread worms can be seen during necropsy; eggs are difficult to find in bird droppings as they are very small. Leviamisole and fenbendazole are effective, though both require a vet’s prescription for use in poultry

 
post #16 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogCabinChicks View Post
 

Thank you so much for all of this information!  I will have to stay on label and dig into my pocket book....

 

now, I'm off to read the links you found me.  Wonderful! Just wonderful! :bow:caf

 

You are most welcome.

 

Good luck with finding a good program for your birds. (We no longer do turkeys with our chickens for concern of blackhead disease...though it was nice to have the turkeys for one source of marek's protection for the chickens.)

 

LofMc

Keeper of 15+ layers, common to specialty types for colorful egg baskets. Brooding Queens: The Queen Mum Silkie and 2 Bantam Cochin handmaids. Preparing to breed my own Olive Eggers! Barnevelder roo with Splash Marans and CL for egg color and color coding :D Former 4H leader, GDB Puppy Raiser, Homeschooler. Current ESL tutor. Proud new grandma. Loving wife to a very tolerant husband.
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Keeper of 15+ layers, common to specialty types for colorful egg baskets. Brooding Queens: The Queen Mum Silkie and 2 Bantam Cochin handmaids. Preparing to breed my own Olive Eggers! Barnevelder roo with Splash Marans and CL for egg color and color coding :D Former 4H leader, GDB Puppy Raiser, Homeschooler. Current ESL tutor. Proud new grandma. Loving wife to a very tolerant husband.
Reply
post #17 of 17

Had a little more time to expand on this topic from the organic view point.

 

My daughter is an organic farmer (with her husband) in Tennessee. They started with a small flock of hens from my flock, poultry wise, and now are actively farming organic vegetables and chickens (meaties and layers...though most of those for family use currently as they break into the "egg market"). We often talk of organic methods vs. standard meds especially since she is a former Vet Tech (we used my flock during her Vet Tech studies in college).

 

Here is one organic article I found which was instructive for blackhead in turkeys (which you may have read already):

https://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/viewhtml.php?id=343

 

And another that addresses a number of herbal remedies and more importantly shows how litter turnover and UV light can help kill worm eggs:

https://poultrykeeper.com/general-chickens/worming-chickens/

 

Remember, cecal worms are actually only harmful for the Turkeys. Chickens seem fairly unbothered by cecal worms unless the load becomes really heavy. If you keep only chickens, then your worries are lessened. It is of course adding the turkeys alongside chickens, or on ground previously occupied by chickens, that blackhead risk arises.

 

I have personally tried the herbal route and moved onto adding the "drugs" as well. My daughter remains on the herbal only route to remain certified organic. 

 

If you do herbal treatments, litter control, field rotation, and bio-security are essential (which is good for general prevention anyway). Herbals help expel the worms but they do not kill the worms hence you must rotate field and litter to remove the egg load and actual worms expelled.

 

I have heard good things about Molly's wormer, and have purchased and used it. My chickens just don't seem to prefer eating it so I have to hide it in a yogurt type mash. Since I don't have the space for field rotation (1/3 acre), even with seasonal litter removal, over the years, I have had to resort to medicine to keep ahead of outbreaks.

 

But I only do this as a hobby. If this were a business, like my daughter, I would invest in the equipment and land to allow the kind of field rotation and litter removal needed so that herbal would be more effective to really limit drug use as the FDA limitations for meds (as in one drug only) sets the scene for drug resistance.

 

I'll link Molly's wormer below.

http://www.fiascofarm.com/herbs/mollysherbals.php/categories/herbal-wormer

 

Wormwood is the main ingredient in that, and it is much, much, cheaper than the Verm-X (which is predominately garlic, cayenne, and another ingredient I've forgotten).

Molly's offers some research (limited) in their testimonial while I've never seen anything other than anecdotal evidence for Verm-X.

 

That of course doesn't help with an outbreak, but it can help with the clean up and vision for the future.

 

More food for thought for  you.

LofMc

Keeper of 15+ layers, common to specialty types for colorful egg baskets. Brooding Queens: The Queen Mum Silkie and 2 Bantam Cochin handmaids. Preparing to breed my own Olive Eggers! Barnevelder roo with Splash Marans and CL for egg color and color coding :D Former 4H leader, GDB Puppy Raiser, Homeschooler. Current ESL tutor. Proud new grandma. Loving wife to a very tolerant husband.
Reply
Keeper of 15+ layers, common to specialty types for colorful egg baskets. Brooding Queens: The Queen Mum Silkie and 2 Bantam Cochin handmaids. Preparing to breed my own Olive Eggers! Barnevelder roo with Splash Marans and CL for egg color and color coding :D Former 4H leader, GDB Puppy Raiser, Homeschooler. Current ESL tutor. Proud new grandma. Loving wife to a very tolerant husband.
Reply
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