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lavender orpington - Page 2

post #11 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenMisha View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by junebuggena View Post

Lavender is basically a black bird, with two recessive blue dilute genes. In order to reproduce the Lavender color, you need to breed him with another Lavender or a bird that carries Lavender. Otherwise, he will produce mostly black chicks. They will be mixed breeds.

This is incorrect. Lavender and Splash are two different genes. The Blue gene in its homozygous form results in Splash, which while sometimes appearing similar to Lavender, is caused by a different gene than Lavender, which is an autosomal recessive. Splash birds will produce Blue or partial Blue offspring in most all crosses, whereas Lavenders will not produce Lavenders unless bred to a Lavender.


stopped reading at "This is incorrect."

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post #12 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by junebuggena View Post

Blue/Black/Splash is a dominant gene. I specifically said that a Lavender bird is recessive blue.

I swear I read your original post like three times before responding and somehow still missed the "recessive" thrown in there. Oops. Although it might have helped that I've never considered Lavender a blue color and as I recall its not actually related to the bl gene that causes typically blue/splash.

200 something birds. 8 species. ♥ Norman ♥ Norma ♥ Misha ♥ and ♥ Taylor ♥ are my babies.
Visit Norman the Rooster's Thread Here!
Breeding Sex Linked Silkies, Gamefowl, and EEs/OEs. Amateur genetics buff. Caponization practitioner/advocate.
Working at The Poultry Palace in Placerville, CA. Come see us for started pullets, chicks, Bar Ale feed, & more!

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200 something birds. 8 species. ♥ Norman ♥ Norma ♥ Misha ♥ and ♥ Taylor ♥ are my babies.
Visit Norman the Rooster's Thread Here!
Breeding Sex Linked Silkies, Gamefowl, and EEs/OEs. Amateur genetics buff. Caponization practitioner/advocate.
Working at The Poultry Palace in Placerville, CA. Come see us for started pullets, chicks, Bar Ale feed, & more!

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post #13 of 19

Are you saying that lavender orpingtons roosters are kid friendly because I have a egg buisness and I don't want to sell roosters that are not kid friendly. Please let me know how he is with kids.

post #14 of 19

Hey there. do you have a lavender orpington for sale because I think that they are very pretty birds, please let me know soon. :jumpy

post #15 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgiayankee View Post

so if I hatch some buffs and cross breed to my lavenders they won't produce lavenders, but they would still be purebred orpingtons right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by junebuggena View Post

Blue/Black/Splash is a dominant gene. I specifically said that a Lavender bird is recessive blue.
They would no longer be 'purebred' because they will no longer breed 'true.' Plus you might end up with a lot of 'leakage' in the roosters. When it comes to chickens, breed is not dependent on pedigree. If you start crossing colors of a certain breed, they no longer meet the breed standard, and therefore, can not be claimed to be purebred. 
That's not accurate. If both parents are orpington then the offspring is as well.
Color does not change whether they are pure of breed or not.
The only colors recognized for show are blue, black, buff & white. Color does not dictate breed purity, only show quality.
Whites are recessive and are not pure in "color" genetics yet they are allowed to be shown as purebred orpingtons...? This is because "breed" purity has nothing to do with "color" dna. Just because a bird has breed standard disqualifications doesn't mean it's not pure of breed. It just means it's not show quality.
There are many many colors of orpingtons including partriage, cuckoo, jubilee, mottle, chocolate, gold lace, crele, blue mottle, blue cuckoo, isabel, isabel cuckoo, lemon cuckoo, red, red cuckoo just to name a few. All these are not recognized as "standard colors" but they are pure of breed.
Edited by RimmerFarm - 12/30/15 at 11:48am
post #16 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by RimmerFarm View Post



That's not accurate. If both parents are orpington then the offspring is as well.
Color does not change whether they are pure of breed or not.
The only colors recognized for show are blue, black, buff & white. Color does not dictate breed purity, only show quality.
Whites are recessive and are not pure in "color" genetics yet they are allowed to be shown as purebred orpingtons...? This is because "breed" purity has nothing to do with "color" dna. Just because a bird has breed standard disqualifications doesn't mean it's not pure of breed. It just means it's not show quality.
There are many many colors of orpingtons including partriage, cuckoo, jubilee, mottle, chocolate, gold lace, crele, blue mottle, blue cuckoo, isabel, isabel cuckoo, lemon cuckoo, red, red cuckoo just to name a few. All these are not recognized as "standard colors" but they are pure of breed.

Breed is not based on pedigree only. It's based on whether or not a bird matches a set standard, and whether or not it will breed true when paired with another 'like' bird. 

Whites will breed true when bred to another white, therefore they do meet the requirements for 'pure'.

You can not cross different varieties of the same breed and still call them 'pure'. This is true for any variety of any breed. You can't cross one variety of Orpington with a different variety of Orpington and still call those offspring pure Orpington. You can't cross one variety of Ameraucana with a different variety of Ameraucana and still call the offspring pure Ameraucana. It's universal.

And yes, there are lots of unrecognized varieties, but there is a reason they are not accepted yet. Crossing those 'project' colors and then selling the offspring as 'pure' doesn't do anything further the breed. It just makes getting those varieties recognized, that much harder.

post #17 of 19
As you said they are called "project COLORS", not different breeds. Your confused on the difference between pure color and pure breed. Crossing 2 different colors will result in a mixed up color but it does not change the breed.
"Breeding true" has nothing to with determining whether its pure breed or not. Blue is a recognized show color yet it does not breed true.
My point about the white is that you can breed a white to a buff and take those off colored offspring back to a white or even to eachother and produce more whites. Thus those whites have "mixed color genetics" yet they are still pure of breed.
If you bred a Chocolate Labrador to a Black Labrador and got yellow puppies the puppies would still be purebred Labrador even though their parents weren't "breeding true".
Color does not dictate breed.
Color is only a factor for show birds. Not a factor when determining breed.
Edited by RimmerFarm - 12/30/15 at 1:49pm
post #18 of 19

Chickens aren't dogs. When it comes to chickens, it doesn't matter if the parents are the same breed. If they are different varieties, they will produce a 'mixed' chick. It will not be one or the other, but something else that doesn't meet the requirements of either. It's not about pedigree, parentage, or lineage. 

When it comes to chickens, breeds are defined by color. That's just the way it is.

post #19 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by junebuggena View Post

Breed is not based on pedigree only. It's based on whether or not a bird matches a set standard, and whether or not it will breed true when paired with another 'like' bird. 
Whites will breed true when bred to another white, therefore they do meet the requirements for 'pure'.
You can not cross different varieties of the same breed and still call them 'pure'. This is true for any variety of any breed. You can't cross one variety of Orpington with a different variety of Orpington and still call those offspring pure Orpington. You can't cross one variety of Ameraucana with a different variety of Ameraucana and still call the offspring pure Ameraucana. It's universal.
And yes, there are lots of unrecognized varieties, but there is a reason they are not accepted yet. Crossing those 'project' colors and then selling the offspring as 'pure' doesn't do anything further the breed. It just makes getting those varieties recognized, that much harder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by junebuggena View Post

Chickens aren't dogs. When it comes to chickens, it doesn't matter if the parents are the same breed. If they are different varieties, they will produce a 'mixed' chick. It will not be one or the other, but something else that doesn't meet the requirements of either. It's not about pedigree, parentage, or lineage. 
When it comes to chickens, breeds are defined by color. That's just the way it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by junebuggena View Post

Chickens aren't dogs. When it comes to chickens, it doesn't matter if the parents are the same breed. If they are different varieties, they will produce a 'mixed' chick. It will not be one or the other, but something else that doesn't meet the requirements of either. It's not about pedigree, parentage, or lineage. 
When it comes to chickens, breeds are defined by color. That's just the way it is.
Breeds are not defined by color.
That is silly.
Let me explain the difference between color varriety and breed using chickens then.
Color is color, breed is breed. Neither define eachother.
A black silkie is not the same breed as a black orpington. A blue cochin is not the same breed as a blue orpington.
Color does not define breed. A breed is not any specific color. Color is only color. Color only matters when in a show competition.
A breed is still the same breed no matter the "color". A black x buff = black with buff leakage. It doesn't equal a different breed, only a different color varriety. It's not a Plymouth rock, it's not a jersey giant, it's not a old english game, it's not a cochin, it's still an Orpington. The "breed" didn't change, just the "color" changed.
A blue x blue = blue black splash. Splash is a different color and not recognized in the show but it's still pure of breed.
if one breeds a black jersey giant to a black orpington and all the offspring are black are they pure orpingtons? NO. Because you now crossed 2 different breeds, even though they are both black the offspring is not purebred. Color does not define breed.
But to each their own. You believe color defines a breed. I belive it doesnt. There is so much that goes into defining each and every breed and color does not play a factor in what seperates or defines each breed from one another. But to each theor own.
Edited by RimmerFarm - 12/30/15 at 6:07pm
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