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Color Project Questions....HELP!!!

post #1 of 6
Thread Starter 

Ok, I wasn't sure where to put this thread, but since this is the genetics section and my questions are mainly about genetics, I figured this was the best place for it.

 

I have a few ideas for some fun color projects, but before I even get my birds, I want to learn as much as possible about which breeds/patterns/genes are dominant and recessive in order to make the final decision about which breeds and varieties I should start with. My six main ideas are as follows:

 

1. Barred Easter Eggers. I know this has been done before, but I basically want a typical Ameraucana build, muff, beard, and pea comb included, with the barred pattern and preferably the blue or green eggs (NOT olive. The dark green weirds me out a little). So would this just be simple Ameraucana X Barred Rock crossings, and if so, what color Ameraucana would least interfere with the vivid barred pattern? I would like the barred pattern to remain as unchanged as possible.

 

2. Blue Barred Easter Eggers or Rocks. I don't particularly care whether these are Easter Eggers or not, I just thought it would be cool to have the blue eggs to go with the blue barred pattern. I have no idea how to make the black in the barred pattern turn blue, though, so any suggestions on how to make that happen would be super awesome.

 

3. Blue Laced Buff. I don't know if this would even be possible within any reasonable amount of time (20 years....?) but I really like the idea of a super blonde buff with that pretty smoky blue lacing. I'm not sure what breed to even start with, although I'm assuming Wyandottes would be a good place to start, what with all the lacing colors they've already been morphed into, but I wouldn't know what to breed them with to get the desired result. I had a thought that maybe a BLRW crossed with a BO or something might have the desired effect, but I really need help on completing that particular thought. Maybe a BLRW with a BW Ameraucana? I really don't know.

 

4. Lavender Splash Easter Eggers. I love the look of Splash EEs. I also love lavender birds. I would REALLY love to combine the two. Would breeding a lavender to a splash achieve this?

 

5. Silver Laced Lavender Wyandottes. The concept behind this would be taking a regular SLW and making the black on such a bird lavender instead. Once again, how do I make a black chicken lavender? Also, how do I get the lacing to stay? Is it dominant? I seem to recall that lavender is dominant, but is it too dominant to make a laced lavender?

 

last but not least....

 

6. I want to cross a Speckled Sussex (or similar pattern) with a BLRW and end up with offspring who have BOTH patterns present. Is this possible, and how would I do it?

 

I know there's a lot of questions here. And I also know that I don't know ANYTHING about chicken color genetics, including dominant and recessive genes. I know the difference, and I know how to manipulate the two (I've bred horses for 15 years), but I don't know anything about the specific colors themselves. The only thing I know for sure is Black X Black = 100% Black, Black X Blue = 50% each Black and Blue, Blue X Blue = 50% Blue, 25% Black, 25% Splash, Splash X Black = 100% Blue, Splash X Blue = 50% each Blue and Splash, Splash X Splash = 100% Splash, and that the same applies to Wheatens where Wheaten=Black, Blue Wheaten=Blue, Splash Wheaten=Splash. That's literally ALL I know about chicken color genetics and breeding. Sorry guys, but it looks like you've got your work cut out for ya in educating this newbie!!! Any help, info, tips, tricks, suggestions, or advice would be a blessing and greatly appreciated!!! Thanks in advance!!!

 

Lindsey

 

Oh, and before anyone tries to tell me-- I already know that any of the EEs I create will not breed true, and that getting more than, say, one of each these varieties I'm attempting would be a heck of a long shot. I just want to see if I can do it, just one time, in the manner in which I envisioned it, that's all. Ok, I'm really done babbling now :D

~*~ Lindsey ~*~

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~*~ Lindsey ~*~

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post #2 of 6

Look up blue wheaten, they exist in ameruacana. Most of the other colors you know how to make or that they exist. Splash lavender is impossible. Blue results in splash, blue and black. Lavender does not.

Everybody talks about the weather, but nobody does anything about it.

 

-Charles Dudley Warner

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Everybody talks about the weather, but nobody does anything about it.

 

-Charles Dudley Warner

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post #3 of 6

I can help with some of these, some I'm not sure are possible with birds.

 

since you have a horse background, my analogy for black/blue/splash is chestnut/palomino/cremello, or the bay equivalent. If you've got a grasp of those in horse, the b/b/s works exactly the same way in chicken :)

 

Barring is a sex linked gene on top of the bird's regular color. I guess you could liken it to pinto markings, except adding in the sex linkage. A pure barred male bird has two copies of the barring gene and passes one to each offspring regardless of gender. A pure barred hen has one copy of the barring gene and only passes it to her male offspring. That's why pure barred males are lighter overall than pure barred females, they have a double dose of the white bars on the base color.

 

 

Barred Easter eggers are fairly easy. If you don't want an olive or darker green shade, don't go with a Rock for your barred parent. Breeding the brown egg genes out will take more time.  Go with a white egg layer, either a barred Holland or a production black. If you put a cock of one of those breeds over black Ameraucana hens, you'll get all black barred birds that lay blue eggs. You could then work breeding the F1s together to get pure barred males, and have a line that breeds absolutely true for black barred birds that lay blue eggs in just a few generations. If you don't have Ameraucana hens and are starting with Easter eggers, color is going to be a bit more of a crapshoot in the future generations. Most of your F1 should be black barred, if your EE are the wild-type brown hen coloring, as extended black is a pretty dominant gene. But, then moving forward on those birds trying to stabilize the black and barring may be a bit more challenging. Starting with black hens would put you quite a bit ahead. There's a thread somewhere for cuckoo Ameraucana project color....genetically cuckoo and barring are the same. There's also a cuckoo lavender project thread floating around somewhere, not sure if either of those are still active projects or not.

 

 

Blue barred birds are about the same. Black + splash = blue. So, in the above scenario, you could sub splash Ameraucana hens and get blue barred birds that lay blue eggs. There are already blue barred Rocks--DMRippy had some last I knew, you might look her up. Being Rocks, they'd be brown eggers, though.

 

I've not worked with lavender much, but I do know it's a recessive take on the black. I don't think you could get a splash lavender. There's a thread about lavender Ameraucana, that might be a good place to research and find the basis on genetics for that color, and what is possible with it.

 

Good luck on your projects!

Rachel BB

Stem cell transplant from unrelated donor in Feb 2015. Thank you to all my friends here on BYC for all your support during my treatment and ongoing recovery!

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Rachel BB

Stem cell transplant from unrelated donor in Feb 2015. Thank you to all my friends here on BYC for all your support during my treatment and ongoing recovery!

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post #4 of 6

While it is possible for a bird to be both lavender (2 copies of lavender) and splash (2 copies of blue), the visual result is probably not what you are thinking. The lavender tends to wash out under the splash.

 

As for the lavender laced Wyandottes, lavender is recessive, not dominant. Introducing the lavender shouldn't be difficult. Working on the lacing from that point will take time, along with weeding out any unwanted traits (skin color, comb type, extra toes, muffs/beards, etc) introduced by the breed you use to introduce the lavender.

post #5 of 6
Thread Starter 

Thanks for taking the time to answer, everyone. In my research, I came to the conclusion that lavender splash is a terrible idea, lol, and that the lavender laced would be a little more time consuming than what I had in mind. I did, however, come across something interesting while doing research on the combined mottling/lacing idea I had for the Speckled Sussex X Wyandotte cross. Don't know if any of you have heard of it. It's called the Tolbunt Wyandotte and comes from crossing a Mille Fleur with a Gold Laced Wyandotte. I even found a specific recipe for this variety and am just DYING to try it out. Only problem is, I'm not really sure what breed mille fleur bird to get. I've seen bantams, cochins, leghorns, etc. and I don't know which breed would be the best. I would really prefer it wasn't a bantam, though. What do you think? Do you know which breed would be the easiest to acquire/the most common mille fleur breed?

 

Thanks again, everybody!!!

 

Lindsey

~*~ Lindsey ~*~

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~*~ Lindsey ~*~

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post #6 of 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomFarm13 View Post

Thanks for taking the time to answer, everyone. In my research, I came to the conclusion that lavender splash is a terrible idea, lol, and that the lavender laced would be a little more time consuming than what I had in mind. I did, however, come across something interesting while doing research on the combined mottling/lacing idea I had for the Speckled Sussex X Wyandotte cross. Don't know if any of you have heard of it. It's called the Tolbunt Wyandotte and comes from crossing a Mille Fleur with a Gold Laced Wyandotte. I even found a specific recipe for this variety and am just DYING to try it out. Only problem is, I'm not really sure what breed mille fleur bird to get. I've seen bantams, cochins, leghorns, etc. and I don't know which breed would be the best. I would really prefer it wasn't a bantam, though. What do you think? Do you know which breed would be the easiest to acquire/the most common mille fleur breed?

Thanks again, everybody!!!

Lindsey
Why wouldn't the Speckled Sussex work? They are basically a Mille Fleur.
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