What would you do? (really a rhetorical question - I just need to vent)

I am not going to get past this until I tell someone, and I don't want to tell anyone who knows the people involved because I don't want to hurt anyone when I can't be 100% sure.

Anyway, I sold some hatching eggs to someone. She said she ordered because of a review she saw about me. The review was:

SUPER EGG Walli *******!!! In February I bought myself some Isbar hatching eggs from Walli ******* for my birthday. Packaging was amazing and all eggs arrived in perfect condition. After they shipped we had a cold snap and unfortunately no babies hatched. I told Walli and she said that she would replace them for just the cost of shipping when I was ready. 3 weeks ago she sent my 12 replacement eggs and as of now 5 have hatched with 4 more zipping! AMAZING seller who is always willing to answer questions or give advice. Thank you Walli!

She purchased 12+, shipped to their home. I sent 18 because of an issue with one of my birds that has now been removed from the breeding pool. About 3 weeks later, she said she had a good hatch - 11 hatched. However, 2 had leg issues, but the rest were doing great. A couple days later, she said it was all working out and asked if she could get another batch of eggs. I told her that I had stopped shipping for the summer (this was July) to change feeds and rearrange some pens and I wanted to make sure to recheck fertility after all that before shipping any more eggs. So far, so good.

Then, about 8 days later, she tells me all but 2 of the chicks had died suddenly - 4 that she had sold to one customer, 2 she had sold to another, and 3 of those she kept. She only had 2 left. She implied, but nicely, that perhaps it was a problem with the eggs. This breed did have vitality issues due to inbreeding when it was first introduced to this country, but I have worked hard on diversity in my breeding groups and had overcome that obstacle. I haven't had any other customers complain of early chick mortality to me, but it made me wonder if something was developing. She asked me last week if I had any eggs available yet and that only one chick survived, but my girls are molting, so I told her it will be a little bit yet.

Here's where the problem surfaces. Yesterday, a customer of hers posted pictures online of some juveniles that would be the same age as the ones my customer hatched - 5 gorgeous, healthy birds that look very much like my stock. I asked her where she got them and she told me she had gotten them as chicks from my egg customer! And she was told they were hatched from my eggs!!!


I know, I hadn't sent her any more eggs for just the cost of postage as I had planned, so no-harm-no-foul, right? Even if I had, I wouldn't be that upset about losing money on the eggs (though that really hurts at this point in time), but it does make me think twice about continuing to ship out a second set of eggs when the first was not successful. I like to share my breeds with others and want them to be successful hatching. But I am mad about being made to wonder if there was a problem developing in my stock. I am mad that someone might willfully plan to take advantage of my caring about my customers' success. I am mad that her customer has a question mark about the lineage of her birds.

I am not sure my egg customer will contact me again for eggs since I know the two ladies talked and she knows she was caught in her lie. But if she does, would you sell to her again, but at full price?

I'm not taking sides but if this happened to me I would...

* Vent as you did - as I would be angry too
* If possible, contact my other customers and see if anything similar has happened or is it only with this one customer (which would warrant further scrutiny).
* If she said they died after 8 days then what is her setup like and could they be dying from other causes: too much/too little heat, exposed to drafts, possible unsanitary conditions, enough water, enough feed, any stresses (including shipping from her to her end customer), etc, etc. before or after being sold to her customers.

That's all I can think of at the moment, but you get the idea. If you find out that the issue is not from your stock then be honest and tell her why you will not ship to her anymore. Unfortunately, even though we want to give people the benefit of the doubt, there are those out there that feel no shame in taking advantage of someone if they feel they can get away with it. You are not obligated to sell to anyone you know are possibly cheating you out of your rightful income.

Every time I ordered eggs I was told that the seller is not responsible if they don't hatch, how can they be, so many factors, and you certainly can't guarantee chicks survivability, you can't guarantee nothing except for them being fertile eggs from the birds you specify. I know most send extras, that's as far as I would go, and that's as far as I would expect, it certainly is your personal choice to sell to her or not, but she would always pay full price if it was my choice.

I would not sell to her again. Not worth it. Your gut feeling is usually right, follow it.

Free Spirit said:

I'm not taking sides but if this happened to me I would...

* Vent as you did - as I would be angry too
* If possible, contact my other customers and see if anything similar has happened or is it only with this one customer (which would warrant further scrutiny).
* If she said they died after 8 days then what is her setup like and could they be dying from other causes: too much/too little heat, exposed to drafts, possible unsanitary conditions, enough water, enough feed, any stresses (including shipping from her to her end customer), etc, etc. before or after being sold to her customers.

That's all I can think of at the moment, but you get the idea. If you find out that the issue is not from your stock then be honest and tell her why you will not ship to her anymore. Unfortunately, even though we want to give people the benefit of the doubt, there are those out there that feel no shame in taking advantage of someone if they feel they can get away with it. You are not obligated to sell to anyone you know are possibly cheating you out of your rightful income.

Click to expand...

Great minds think alike.

- I do keep in touch with most of my customers and keep close tabs on how well the hatches go and how the juveniles mature. I don't sell so many eggs that I can't remember the major details of most of my customers hatches. I also keep all correspondence so I can look back and check details if need be. None of my customers before or after her reported any problems with vitality.

- We did talk about her set-up and she said she was a very experienced hatcher. She had another breed of chicks that hatched with them that she admitted she lost one of, but said the rest were thriving. I didn't believe I was responsible for the chicks' deaths, but it still made me feel awful for her.

oldhenlikesdogs said:

Every time I ordered eggs I was told that the seller is not responsible if they don't hatch, how can they be, so many factors, and you certainly can't guarantee chicks survivability, you can't guarantee nothing except for them being fertile eggs from the birds you specify. I know most send extras, that's as far as I would go, and that's as far as I would expect, it certainly is your personal choice to sell to her or not, but she would always pay full price if it was my choice.

Click to expand...

I keep telling myself to take a hard line as others do, but I am too much of a softie.

I think you have answered your question. Take a breath of relief. If your other customers are not experiencing problems and the one customer is then it is likely it has to do with what happened after the shipment arrive and the chicks were hatched. An issue that had nothing to do with your product and beyond your control.

Yes, she may be an experienced hatcher and have had a previously very successful hatch rate. But... There are a lot of variables between batches (I'm sure many who hatch their own eggs can tell you). Conditions may have been great one time, but the next time there could have been humidity differences, temperature fluctuations, equipment malfunctions, power outages, etc.

Then it's, how were the living and feeding conditions after they were hatched. How many people may have handled the chicks and bringing in potential pathogens. The possibilities are long and again out of your control - so not your fault.

I'm not an experience hatcher. I had chickens that hatched their own eggs decades ago, but I buy pullets. So I'm only going off what I have read while researching incubating (I hope to have an incubator someday and want to learn all I can first). I have raised plenty of chicks. I've even lost a few chicks hours after getting them home. It's why I buy a few more than I need. I know there is no 100% guarantee and don't expect it.

I'm like you, too nice to say "no". But I do draw the line when I feel taken advantage of. Whether you sell to her again or not is your personal decision. It's a hard one that only you can decide. Personally, I'd be hesitant.

If my eggs turned up very well packed but none hatched I'd probably let you know but wouldn't expect a replacement, that's the chance you take with shipped eggs.

If they turned up badly packed that would be different.

Honestly, that woman would never get another egg from me.

I wouldn't sell her anything or give her anything. You said the two women talked to each other. She knows you caught her in a lie. I can't imagine her having the nerve to try and get more from you. I would not respond to her in any way. Been there, done that.

I think you are perfectly in your right to refuse selling to her again. However, if you do decide to sell to her, I would just make it clear that you are not responsible for replacements of chicks after hatching. At eight days past hatch, it is much more likely that the deaths occurred due to husbandry error rather than due to anything related to the egg.