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# INCUBATING w/FRIENDS! come HATCH, LEARN, & Chat! w/hosts, Sally Sunshine & BantyChooks - Page 5541

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sally Sunshine
WORMING CHICKENS (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HenHoneyGirl
AFTER WORMING IMAGES

I got Panacur equine dewormer, How should I administer it to her?

Poultry Body Weights average body weights of various exhibition poultry. https://sites.google.com/a/poultrypedia.com/poultrypedia/poultry-body-weights

# 10% Fenbendazole    Liquid = 100mg/ml and Paste = 100mg/gram

per Kathy

Buy some Safeguard liquid for goats or Safeguard/Panacur paste for horses. The dose I use is 0.23 ml per pound orally for five consecutive days.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HenHoneyGirl

Okay, trying to process the information here. So 0.23 ml per pound orally for 5 days, by orally is that just squirted into her mouth or dissolved in water? And how do I calculated 0.23 ml? It doesn't say anything on the package as far as measurements, it's just 25 grams total, I though I had a syringe that might tell me but I can't find it.

I'm gonna guess that your hen weighs ~5 pounds. Dose for treating all chicken worms is 50mg/kg orally for five consecutive days. Math is weight of bird in pound, divide by 2.2, times 50, divide by 100 = number of ml to give.

5 / 2.2 x 50 / 100 = 1.136, so round up to 1.15 ml.

A 25 gram tube = 25 ml.

Chickens and dogs get 50mg/kg for several days, horses, goats and cows get just 5mg/kg.

-Kathy

Fenbendazole paste is not water soluble, it must be given orally!

It must be given orally, and the dose is *much* more than a pea size amount. A pea size amount has only 25 mg.

From left to right:

Small = 10mg ( .1cc) = enough for a 200 gram (7 ounce) bird at 50mg/kg

Medium = 25mg (.25cc) = enough for a 500 gram (17 ounce) bird at 50mg/kg

Large = 50mg ( .5cc) = enough for a 1000 gram (35 ounce) bird at 50mg/kg

50 mg/kg for 5 days is what my vets and other vets have recommended.

She needs 115 mg, which is 1.15 ml or about 4 of the medium sized peas for 5 consecutive days if you want to treat for all worms.

1.15 ml

Everyone, I like Dawg53 a lot, but the recommendation of 3 cc in the water is unlikely to treat any worms. Same is true for the infamous "pea size" amount. A five pound hen should get ~115 mg, not 25 mg.

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by daxigait

Quote:
Originally Posted by casportpony

I've only ever seen one or two in poultry poop, or huge amounts like that in necropsy pictures. Not sure what I would do if I found a pile like that in my coop. I'd worm, just don't know if I'd use Safeguard or pyrantel pamoate... and I would worm knowing that worming might actually kill the bird. Would probably also give fluids either orally or subcutaneously if it were one of my beloved peafowl or turkeys.

-Kathy
how much safeguard? It is one of the ms birds so sell or die it is leaving. I was told to worm twice a year and could start in the spring since they were all young this last fall. Anyone who sees this no how wrong that advice was.

If she were mine and I decided to use Safeguard I think I would give 0.23ml per pound for five days in a row, that will treat all worms, but if you want to treat just the large roundworms, give it once and repeat in 10 days.

-Kathy

"fenbenSafeguard Will treat large roundworms, cecal worms, capillary worms, gape worms, gizzard worms, possible some species of tape worms". It will not treat eye worms, might not treat oviduct flukes

## Internal parasites (endoparasites, worms, helminths)

### Roundworms (nematodes)

• Acuaria spp ~ Dispharynx ~ Synhimanthus spp. \$Gizzard worms. Gizzard, esophagus and proventriculus. Can be a problem in endemic regions, mainly in birds kept outdoors.
• Ascaridia spp\$\$\$Chicken roundworms. Small intestine. A serious problem worldwide, also in confined operations.
• Capillaria spp. \$\$Hairworms. Crop, esophagus, small intestine, large intestine.
• Heterakis spp\$\$\$\$. Cecal worms. Cecum. Probably the most threatening worms in all kind of poultry operations worldwide.
• Oxyspirura spp. \$. Fowl eyeworms. Eyes. Usually a secondary problem in individual birds kept outdoors.
• Strongyloides spp. \$\$Threadworms, pinworms. Small intestine. Can be a serious problem worldwide.
• Subulura spp. \$. Cecum and small intestine. A secondary problem in birds kept outdoors worldwide.
• Syngamus trachea. \$\$. Gapeworms. Trachea, bronchi. A serious problem in birds kept outdoors in endemic regions.
• Tetrameres spp. \$. Proventriculus and esophagus. Can be a problem in endemic regions, mainly in outdoor opertaions.

### Tapeworms (cestodes)

• Amoebotaenia cuneata = sphenoides\$. Small intestine. Usually a secondary issue in most poultry operations
• Choanotaenia infundibulum\$. Small intestine. Usually not a major issue in modern poultry operations.
• Davainea proglottina. \$. Minute tapeworms. Small intestine. Can be a problem in birds kept outdoors in endemic regions.
• Raillietina spp. \$\$. Small intestine. The most frequent tapeworm in poultry, however normally not a major problem.

### Flukes (trematodes, flatworms)

• Prosthogonimus spp. \$. Oviduct flukes. Oviduct, bursa of Fabricius. Can be a serious threat for birds kept outdoors in endemic regions.

Capillary worms

This chick had 3 cc Safeguard in the water:

Those are roundworms, the easiest of all the worms to kill.

-Kathy

Quote:
Originally Posted by HenHoneyGirl

Okay, so I put a pea sized amount of wormer in some water it and it dissolved pretty good, still a couple of small flakes that I couldn't break up but she's drinking it, hopefully she'll get enough in her that it will help and she'll want to eat more than meal worms and scraps from one of our chickens we're roasting tonight. I'll give her a bit more tomorrow maybe if I can tempt her to eat.

You need to give her 1.15 ml orally (4-5 pea size amounts), not in the water.

-Kathy

Quote:
http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/744734/worming-with-horse-wormer/0_20
Quote:
Originally Posted by casportpony

Clear tote, that's a great idea!

The dosage measurements are for 10% paste. ie there is 100mg of active ingredient for 1g (1000mg) of paste.

So...

0.5cc of paste ~= 0.5g of paste

0.5g of paste = 500mg of paste

500mg of (10%) paste contains 50mg of active ingredient

A dosage of 50mg active ingredient per 1kg body weight

=500mg of (10%) paste per 1kg body weight

=0.5g of paste per 1kg body weight

=0.5cc of paste per 1kg body weight
If your bird weighs 2kg then you would need 1cc (or 1g) of paste.

-Kathy
Quote:

Paste or liquid, 1ml of either has 100mg of fenbendazole. The dose I use for roundworms and cecal worms is 50mg/kg (.5ml per kg) once by mouth, repeat in 10 days. For capillary worms I give the same amount 3-5 days in a row, but still looking for info on dosing again in 10 days.

From Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook - 7th Edition

Quote:
Also have this one:

Panacur is not licensed for use in Poultry in the UK. It is a wormer that is commonly used for cats and dogs as well as cattle.

If you take your chickens to the vets for worming they may be given Panacur. It is a broad spectrum wormer that many vets will prescribe for poultry, often because they don’t stock Flubenvet but have Panacur on the shelf.

Used to treat: Large roundworm, caecal worm, gapeworm, hairworm and gizzard worm in poultry and the Taenia species of tapeworm.

Dosage: Varies according to the vet’s advice. Usually between 10mg and 50mg per Kg of weight. Repeated 7 to 10 days later.
Active ingredient: Fenbendazole.
Egg withdrawal for chickens: Intervet (who make Panacur) advised 7 days following the last day of treatment.
Slaughtering for meat for human consumption: 7 days after the last treatment
Length of treatment: 7 to 10 days (dosage is repeated after 7 to 10 days).

Roundworm

Cecal worm

Capillary worms

Gapeworm

Fenbendazole is approved in the USA for use in growing turkeys at the rate of 14.5 g/ton of feed (16 ppm), fed continuously as the sole ration for 6 days for the removal of Ascaridia dissimilis and Heterakis gallinarum. No withdrawal time is required. One study indicates a possible negative effect on sperm quality by the drug. It has been suggested that an alternative drug be used for treatment of breeding toms or that the sperm number and frequency of artificial inseminations be increased. Fenbendazole is not approved for use in other poultry in the USA but is effective against Ascaris when administered once at 10–50 mg/kg; if needed the treatment can be repeated after 10 days. At 10–50 mg/kg, fenbendazole when administered daily over 5 days is effective against Capillaria. Fenbendazole is also efffective against other nematodes when administered at 10–50 mg/kg/day for 3–5 days or as a single dosage of 20–100 mg/kg, or added to the drinking water at 125 mg/L for 5 days or to the feed at 100 mg/kg. Fenbendazole should not be administered during molt, because it may interfere with feather regrowth.

Fenbendazole at 20 mg/kg for 3–4 days effectively removes gapeworms in pheasants. Toxicity has been reported in pigeons that received fenbendazole at the rate of 30 mg/kg for 5 days. Thiabendazole administered at 0.05% in the feed continuously for 2 wk can be used for treatment of gapeworms in pheasants, and when given continuously for ≥4 days is said to help prevent and control infections. Withdrawal of 21 days is required for meat consumption; specific precautions should be observed in feeds containing bentonite. Tetramisole at 3.6 mg/kg for 3 consecutive days in the drinking water removes gapeworms. Poultry treated while larvae are migrating in the body develop immunity to gapeworms, even though therapy may abort larval migration. Levamisole fed at a level of 0.04% for 2 days or at 2 g/gal. drinking water for 1 day each month has proved to be an effective control in game birds. Kiwis are reported to be acutely sensitive to levamisole at doses well within the safe range for domesticated poultry. Mebendazole fed prophylactically at 64 ppm or curatively at 125 ppm is effective in turkey poults. Cambendazole provided control when given in three treatments of 50 mg/kg for chickens and 20 mg/kg for turkeys. Albendazole administered as a single oral suspension (5 mg/kg bird weight) was reported effective against A galli, H gallinarum, and C obsignata. The drug also has been reported effective against cestodes if administered at 20 mg/kg. There are no published withdrawal times. Nitarsone at 170 g/ton (0.01875%) of feed has been reported to reduce A dissimilis fecundity and worm burden in chickens and turkeys.

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/poultry/helminthiasis/overview_of_helminthiasis_in_poultry.html

# Liquid = 100mg/ml and Paste = 100mg/gram

-Kathy

Quote:

ROUNDWORMS

POOP ALL About CHICKEN POOP sometimes it is runny clear a must read!  post #51529

Found this in coop. The poo chart is close to good and bad. Is this normal? Pic of same poo.

And

The poop page, that chat allotment one, is flawed... IMO, foamy poops are never normal. Could be worms, coccidia or something else. Do you know which one did it?

-Kathy

Water soluble 20% fenbendazole (Safeguard) - 200mg/ml - Available in Europe?

http://fs-1.5mpublishing.com/images/MSD/PDF/PAP%20PBulletin%20v8c%20FINAL.pdf

Quote:

An expensize water soluble wormer: Given properly, I think this will treat most worms, including tapes. I would say all worms, but I'm still not sure what will treat oviduct flukes.

Wormougel - 20g/L Praziquantel, 20g/L Oxfendazole - If I did my math correctly, the dose is 47 ml per gallon. Unclear if it should be given for more than one day and if it needs to be repeated again in 10 days.

Like all other wormers, it's not approved for use in laying hens. It's not banned, it's just not approved.

@casportpony  IS there a way we can get this post straightened out as it should be?  I dont want others to get confused or miss informed.

I will see what I can come up with. Unfortunately, the web is full of misinformation, so many people are likely to just google wormer dosing and won't bother researching it. I know, 'cause that's how I used to do it.

There are so many worms, and each can be treated, but some require more of a medication than others. Giving too little of a wormer can cause resistance, which is one of the reasons people should have fecals done. For example, if a fecal shows just roundworm eggs you could give Wazine (piperazine), pyrantel pamoate or maybe ivermectin and save using something like Safeguard or Valbazen for when you have cecal worms, capillary worms or gapeworms. Those three can be treated with Safeguard or Valbazen, but the dose need to treat each is different. Make sense?

So what's the right thing for people that can't have fecals done? Should they just go ahead and worm for all worms? If it is, how can we get them to ignore all the misinformation? Like the 3cc per gallon? Or the 1/2 cc per bird, repeat in 10 days? And the "pea size" paste?

-Kathy

Edited by casportpony - 2/16/16 at 11:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LocalYokel

Good to see you on Sally, hope your feeling at least a lil better

I am actually feeling much better than last night and this morning.  felt like taking a long hike but couldnt get off the couch lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos18

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sally Sunshine

why could they turn more eggs?

yes more time for meds to kick in thank you, and then neb treatments and coughin the lungs up and expelling them helped too

Cause they is more biggerer. Glad to hear you're feeling a little better at least. I'll shaI re my little secret remedy for getting better quickly (it helped me over the weekend). It's a little trick I learned from an old mexican guy. Drowned your sickness in tequila. Works like a charm.

uggg no Tequ   I am out of  jack though  thats prol why I got sick!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenCanoe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos18

Cause they is more biggerer. Glad to hear you're feeling a little better at least. I'll share my little secret remedy for getting better quickly (it helped me over the weekend). It's a little trick I learned from an old mexican guy. Drowned your sickness in tequila. Works like a charm.

With the worm and followed by some cayenne or habanero peppers.

as in straight peppers? yer nutty

Quote:
Originally Posted by seramamama34

Can yall help me? I am doing my first hatch and doing the dry incubation method. I am hatching serama eggs. The temp in  my bator ranges from 98.2-99.7. Is this an ok range? Everytime I try to bump it a tad it gets to warm then eventually settles into this range. I am in Day 2 of the hatch.

are your thermo hygros calibrated? what kinda bator are you using fan or no fan?  what do you consider DRY incubation method?  I dont suggest that for serama at all.  I hatch serama all the time and they need higher humidity because they are small eggs and not very thick shelled, and they loose weight fast.

I run 55% to start and adjust humidity as needed until day 17 then I lock them down.  also keep at least 99.5 and no less. I run my bators calibrated at 100.5-101

# for EVERYONE'S convenience and will continue to put them HERE:

Good news! The feed store got my incubator in and they're holding it for me!  I may not be able to pick it up until this weekend, but that's ok. I've got plenty of time to get it set up before the EHAL.

My blog: https://onewitch.wordpress.com/

I'm The Odd One.

My blog: https://onewitch.wordpress.com/

I'm The Odd One.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwlpoultry

Sally I need to update. Well my little sister turned the nob that sets the temp in the bator and fried my eggs so now I am down to 39 Barred rock eggs will give another update later.

oh I am so sorry!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by campingshaws

I need to order my thermostat today. Wafer or digital? I'm leaning toward digital.

you know I use wafers, but I bought the cheaper digital and will try it in this cooler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seramamama34

Is it too late to increase or I can try and get it up a tad and expect the hatch date to extend? It stays at 99 for most of the time but does drop to a low of 98.2 before the heater kicks on again

Up it and see my post to you, keep so the low is 99.5 and no higher on the up than 101.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by hippiestink

Thank you everyone for the well-wishes. I'm back online just in time to see that I'm going to be featured on the site Wrapunzel! Pretty stoked.

Wrapunzel????????????  oh do tell!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy High

Hello to all. I have a hen that has been sitting. Yesterday 1 chick popped out from under her. She has not gotten off nest yet to get it to drink. I think this may be her first time to hatch. If it is same hen that hatched a few months ago, then its her 2nd time (and that did not go well). How long do I let her stay on nest with at least one chick if she doesnt take it down for a drink? Any advise greatly appreciated.

@Wendy High   I am not sure what to tell you!

BROODY HENS

Encourage Hens to Hatch Eggs http://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/encourage-hens-to-hatch-eggs.aspx

SHOULD I move my BROODY mamma? discussion begins post #28264 post #28269

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos18

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhites634

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos18

Cause they is more biggerer. Glad to hear you're feeling a little better at least. I'll share my little secret remedy for getting better quickly (it helped me over the weekend). It's a little trick I learned from an old mexican guy. Drowned your sickness in tequila. Works like a charm.

Normally, I'd have a sure-fire remedy for her, but it involves a double shot of Jack; wouldn't do her a bit of good

Would a triple work better in her case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhites634

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos18

Would a triple work better in her case?

Maybe a fourful

two shots per Mason jar....  on the rocks please

Edited by Sally Sunshine - 2/16/16 at 11:23am

Quote:
Originally Posted by klively

So this is my first incubation experience. I am on Day 7. Looks like my egg turner got of its rail sometime in last 18 hours....not sure exactly when it happened but I always check the egg positions and noted twice in a row looked like they had not moved (bedtime last pm and first thing this am). Thought maybe randomly at same place in cycle. Novice! Just found the problem. So, I understand this is a critical time period. Am I up a creek without a paddle? How can I know if the batch has been affected? Praying I have not lost this whole group.

Thank you!

you really wont know until the end, it may or may not have some malpositions, perhaps some early DIS too.  You have it figured out now? You cant change what happened, I have heard people do this many times and dont have an issue.

@Sally Sunshine, I think I forgot to thank you for the suggestions you made regarding my last batch of Muscovy eggs. I think you suggested a temp of 100 and RH of 30%. I think both those numbers were spot on and probably the only reason they hatched. Thanks again!

-Kathy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sally Sunshine

uggg no Tequ   I am out of  jack though  thats prol why I got sick!

as in straight peppers? yer nutty

two shots per Mason jar....  on the rocks please

Yes that's probably why you got sick. You should always keep an emergency stash of it. Yes straight peppers. They work better if you grind a little bit into a paste and snort it as well. Will clean ya right out with all the coughing and hacking and crying you'll do. Only two per jar? I thought wide mouth mason jars were your friend.

It's going to be one of those days.

The voices in my head are fighting again.

My imaginary friend is running with scissors, and one of my personalities wandered off.

I don't like to think before I speak. I like to be just as surprised as everyone else about what comes out my mouth.

Sometimes even I am afraid of the things my mind comes up with.

It's going to be one of those days.

The voices in my head are fighting again.

My imaginary friend is running with scissors, and one of my personalities wandered off.

I don't like to think before I speak. I like to be just as surprised as everyone else about what comes out my mouth.

Sometimes even I am afraid of the things my mind comes up with.

Quote:

Good news! The feed store got my incubator in and they're holding it for me!  I may not be able to pick it up until this weekend, but that's ok. I've got plenty of time to get it set up before the EHAL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by casportpony

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sally Sunshine
WORMING CHICKENS (Click to show)
Quote:

I will see what I can come up with. Unfortunately, the web is full of misinformation, so many people are likely to just google wormer dosing and won't bother researching it. I know, 'cause that's how I used to do it.

There are so many worms, and each can be treated, but some require more of a medication than others. Giving too little of a wormer can cause resistance, which is one of the reasons people should have fecals done. For example, if a fecal shows just roundworm eggs you could give Wazine (piperazine), pyrantel pamoate or maybe ivermectin and save using something like Safeguard or Valbazen for when you have cecal worms, capillary worms or gapeworms. Those three can be treated with Safeguard or Valbazen, but the dose need to treat each is different. Make sense?

So what's the right thing for people that can't have fecals done? Should they just go ahead and worm for all worms? If it is, how can we get them to ignore all the misinformation? Like the 3cc per gallon? Or the 1/2 cc per bird, repeat in 10 days? And the "pea size" paste?

-Kathy

By giving them a nicely written post that has all the info to back it up, LIKE you DO SO WELL!!

I personally wont take a fecal to the vet myself lol

I want something that is easy to use as well

Something in water is always easiest, but we should have options for all people and all treatments that will work.

People dont want to and wont read or understand most of the stuff we discuss.  they want to know what to do period.

I think the best thing to do is have a visual chart that will show SOME types of worms, and then treatments below it.

and a preventative if its possible.

I personally do the ivermectin and fenben follow up after 10 days and for 4 days as a preventative.   every 6 months, I was doing every three but that gets out of hand.  Although its a pain I get internals and externals.