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Pgeon Colour Genetics.

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 

Does anyone know about breeding for colours.. and what colours are dominant over others?

 

I have Old Dutch Capuchines.... and most are red colour.

 

I have one black male..  and want to breed him to a red hen.. will I get more black ones? Or should I breed him to a white female?

 

I also would love to get some blue bars.  I have a female blue bar racing pigeon.  When I tried to cross breed her to a white Capuchine I just got white young with brown specks in the feathers.. and no head ruff.

 

Is there a way to cross breed the blue bar homing pigeon to a Capuchine pigeon and get a blue bar capuchine with crest?

 

Sorry if this is rather complicated :rolleyes:

post #2 of 9

There are 3 basic base colors for pigeons I think, ash red, blue and brown. Ash red which is dominant over blue and brown, blue which is dominant over brown, and brown which is recessive to both. Ash red and brown are sex-linked so the male passes on a base color gene to both male and female offspring, while the female only passes on a base color gene to their sons.

 

If you breed your black male with an ash red hen the male offspring will be ash red (split to blue though so some of their babies may be blue/black) and the female offspring will be black. If you bred an ash red male with a blue/black female all the offspring will be ash red but the males will be split to the blue gene.

 

There is also recessive red which can be carried by other colors but needs 2 copies of this gene to show.

 

Crests are recessive I think so if you breed a crested and non crested the babies will be split to crested but won't have a crest. Those babies bred to a crested will have about 50% crested offspring.

 

Sorry if this is confusing LOL, my parents can't understand when I try to explain genetic stuff to them.

 

This is a link to a pigeon color calculator, the link is kinda long but the calculator is really cool.

 

http://kippenjungle.nl/kruisingDuifSpecial.html?DATA=S;Pigeon%20Calculator%20Next%20Gen%20plus%20Pied%20genes;;F;pigeon/;GIF;1,G;Bh;Baldhead;;,G;Sp;Spot%20%28dom.%20and%20rec.%20implementation%29;;,G;Fc;Face;;,G;Bb;Bib%20%28Crescent%29;;,G;Wt;White%20Tail%20%28probably%20multiple%20genes%29;;,G;Ws;White%20Shield%20%28rec.red%20only%29;;,G;En;Enabler%20white%20shield;;,G;Sh;Shield;;,G;Wf;White%20Flight;;,G;Cp;Cap%20%28bulleyed%20baldhead%29;;,G;Z;Gazzi;;,G;E;Recessive%20Red;;,A;Bh;Bh;;baldhead-;H;baldhead-;;1,A;Bh;bh+;;;R;;W;,A;Bh;bh^bd;;beard-;R;;;1,A;Cp;Cp+;;;D;;W;,A;Cp;cp;;cap-;R;;;1,A;Cp;cp^bh;;baldhead-;R;;;1,A;Sp;Sp;;spot-;D;;;1,A;Sp;Sp+;;;D;;W;,A;Sp;sp;;spot-;R;;;1,A;Fc;Fc+;;;D;;W;,A;Fc;fc;;face-;R;;;1,A;Bb;Bb+;;;D;;W;,A;Bb;bb;;bib-;R;;;1,A;Ws;Ws;;ShieldRR-;D;;;1,A;Ws;ws+;;;R;;W;,A;En;En;;Enable;D;;;1,A;En;en+;;;R;;W;,A;Sh;Sh+;;;H;;W;,A;Sh;sh;;shield-;H;Shield-;;1,A;Wf;Wf;;flight-;H;Flight-;;1,A;Wf;wf+;;;D;;W;,A;Wt;Wt;;tail-;D;;;1,A;Wt;wt+;;;D;;W;,A;Wt;wt;;tail-;R;;;1,A;Z;Z+;;;D;;W;,A;Z;z^nk;;neck-;D;;;,A;Z;z;;gazzi-;R;;;,A;Z;z^b;;Belly-;R;;;,A;Z;z^wh;;white;R;;;,A;E;E+;;solid%20%20;D;;W;1,A;E;e;;solid%20Rec.Red;R;;;1,C;EC;white;;white;,C;RP;ShieldRR-;Enable;ShieldRR-Enable;,C;RP1;ShieldRR-Enable;Rec.Red;shield-;,C;RM;ShieldRR-;;;,C;RM;Enable;;;,C;RP;beard-;cap-;beardcap-;,C;RP1;tail-;belly-;hind-;,C;RP1;belly-;bib-;breast-;,C;RP1;Belly;;belly;,C;RP;beard-;face-;facebeard-;,C;RP1;Shield;flight;shield;,C;RM;Shield-;;;,C;RP1;Flight;;flight;,C;RP1;tail-;shield-;hind-;,C;RP;beardcap-;face-;head-;,C;RP;facebeard-;bib-;face-%20bibbeard-;,C;RP;beard-;bib-;bibbeard-;,C;RP1;solid;-;pattern;

17+ pigeons, about 20 coturnix quail, 10 chickens and 2 angora rabbits
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17+ pigeons, about 20 coturnix quail, 10 chickens and 2 angora rabbits
Reply
post #3 of 9
Thread Starter 

Thank you very much.. that information was very useful.

 

I was particularly interested to know about the crest mutation being recessive.  So if I now pair the non crested offspring to a crested Capuchine I should get 50 percent crested offspring.  Yeh! 

 

I am going to breed the blue bar to the white Capuchines.  Then breed their offspring back to the white Capuchines to see if I get any blue bar crested... you think that's sounds right?

post #4 of 9
White is a cover to colors and you could very well have other colors in them n better off not breeding your homer to anything other than other homer for it. Breed young of back to black each generation back to him.. Basic breeding increasing stock trait you want, called line breeding, breeding close FAM together only. Never breed brother to sister though or not too often down lines, as can increase wanted traits and as well defects.

keeping assorted bantams and standard chickens..    pigeons: "white dove release" racing homers, flying flights, flying birmingham rollers, parlor rollers, parlor tumblers, "coop tumblers", Chinease owls.

    Looking to talk to others who enjoy our pigeon/dove hobby.  Also looking to talk chickens, especially black bantam true rosecombs i hope to have again someday, as well as silkies, and...

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keeping assorted bantams and standard chickens..    pigeons: "white dove release" racing homers, flying flights, flying birmingham rollers, parlor rollers, parlor tumblers, "coop tumblers", Chinease owls.

    Looking to talk to others who enjoy our pigeon/dove hobby.  Also looking to talk chickens, especially black bantam true rosecombs i hope to have again someday, as well as silkies, and...

Reply
post #5 of 9

Glad I could help :D I agree with laughingdog, white can cover up other colors so you never know what you will get when breeding white pigeons.

17+ pigeons, about 20 coturnix quail, 10 chickens and 2 angora rabbits
Reply
17+ pigeons, about 20 coturnix quail, 10 chickens and 2 angora rabbits
Reply
post #6 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lozuufy View Post
 

Glad I could help :D I agree with laughingdog, white can cover up other colors so you never know what you will get when breeding white pigeons.

You got that right. My original breeders were solid whites. The off spring most times are solid whites also in a perfect world. That being said you roll the colour dice each time a squab develops

 

.

 


 These birds are all from solid white parents. Do not be surprised if you get solid browns or ash from white parents either. It is all about recessive genes and a breeder really has little to know idea unless you have a solid pedigree of your birds which I have on only 4 of my sixteen birds in my loft to date.


Edited by Hokum Coco - 11/14/15 at 9:14am

Hope this helps,

Check out this link leads to a Video interview on me and my grand daughter done by a local TV Station on our WHITE HOMING PIGEON loft:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1478351/carrier-pigeons-continue-to-connect-family/

If you are not living for something;

You are dying for nothing.

Reply

Hope this helps,

Check out this link leads to a Video interview on me and my grand daughter done by a local TV Station on our WHITE HOMING PIGEON loft:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1478351/carrier-pigeons-continue-to-connect-family/

If you are not living for something;

You are dying for nothing.

Reply
post #7 of 9

I have solid white homers and am trying to get fantails also. My main homer breeding pair is separated and the rest are in the large aviary out back.  

 

I have two fantail males right now. One is black and one is red or brown.

The black one bred with one of my white female homers and both babies are black. They will or may have fantails but I don't plan to keep them as I want to get more pure fantails, so if any more start to breed, I will not allow them to hatch. 

 

Now having said that, I have located two more fantails and one is a female. Now I want to separate my fantails and put them in alone cages as pairs.

The male is solid white show quality and female black. I want to  produce white as much as I can.

I don't want to put him with his black girl then right?

I was thinking put him with a white homer and take a female of that pairing and breed it back to the dad.  Fantails are just so hard to find around here.  

I then think I might pair up the black female with my dark red boy. My hope would be to get red fantails from that pairing.

I tried that calculator but it was too complex for my brain and it doesn't allow me to put in black or white. I know white isn't a color but my pair out front produce all solid whites so far every time. I am not breeding their generations. The babies are free flighted in the aviary and I plan to toss eggs if they lay or get wooden ones.  I don't want tons of birds, but I want to enjoy the white ones and create a fantail line. Thanks for any help you can give me.  I will get pictures when I get these two on Monday.

I wish someone shipped fantail eggs like people do chicks. I would hatch them in my icubator and time them when a mom is brooding eggs and swap them out. lol.  I can't find them here in my area.

post #8 of 9
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryQui View Post
 

I have solid white homers and am trying to get fantails also. My main homer breeding pair is separated and the rest are in the large aviary out back.  

 

I have two fantail males right now. One is black and one is red or brown.

The black one bred with one of my white female homers and both babies are black. They will or may have fantails but I don't plan to keep them as I want to get more pure fantails, so if any more start to breed, I will not allow them to hatch. 

 

Now having said that, I have located two more fantails and one is a female. Now I want to separate my fantails and put them in alone cages as pairs.

The male is solid white show quality and female black. I want to  produce white as much as I can.

I don't want to put him with his black girl then right?

I was thinking put him with a white homer and take a female of that pairing and breed it back to the dad.  Fantails are just so hard to find around here.  

I then think I might pair up the black female with my dark red boy. My hope would be to get red fantails from that pairing.

I tried that calculator but it was too complex for my brain and it doesn't allow me to put in black or white. I know white isn't a color but my pair out front produce all solid whites so far every time. I am not breeding their generations. The babies are free flighted in the aviary and I plan to toss eggs if they lay or get wooden ones.  I don't want tons of birds, but I want to enjoy the white ones and create a fantail line. Thanks for any help you can give me.  I will get pictures when I get these two on Monday.

I wish someone shipped fantail eggs like people do chicks. I would hatch them in my icubator and time them when a mom is brooding eggs and swap them out. lol.  I can't find them here in my area  ​

its very confusing that colour calculator thing... and now I know that the white colour can hide other colour in the genes that may come out in the chicks.

 

I don't think you should cross your white fantail to a white homer.... I did that when I kept fantails and homers... the chicks grow up without a fan tail.. they just have more tail feathers than a normal white homer.. and the tail is still held flat out like a regular pigeon.  They looses their fantail shape.. loose the big breast and the curved neck, etc. 

 

I think you better breed the whites to the coloured ones.. then breed the young back to the parents...... after a few generations you can sell off or give away your coloured ones and keep the whites.. then keep breeding the whites into the future.

 

Some of the coloured fantails can look really beautiful... and people often what them as they can only find white ones for sale.  People love the ones with a white body and coloured wings... I could not breed enough of that kind. 

 

Good luck!

 

I have given up on the idea of crossing my blue bar homer with any of my crested old dutch capuchins.  I know that I would end up with lots of 'ugly' birds with no crests... and I would not be able to re home them..... I can not kill the ones I don't like!!! 

post #9 of 9

Ok thanks for your advice. I may have located some fantail whites where I might get a female to go with my male.  Working on this.  :)

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