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post #11 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by poorfarm View Post
 

I raise pigeons. The dog training referred to is humane if done correctly, because the dog is not going to touch the pigeon.  I know several dog owners who have a few homing pigeons of their own.  A pigeon is put into a cage hidden on the ground under tall grass etc, and with a remote control door opener.  The dog, a pointer type bird dog, is learning to smell out the bird and to go "on point" at it, that is, to freeze with the nose pointed at the bird telling the hunter where it is.  On command, the dog is then to slowly move closer and "flush" the bird into the air for the hunter to shoot.  In training with pigeons, the dog is told to "flush", and the trainer uses the remote control to open the cage.  The homing pigeon flies into the air and back home to the trainer's loft where he has a nice supper waiting, and the dog is praised for correctly flushing the bird.

 

The inhumane hunters are the ones who go to a pigeon show or bird sale and buy whatever pigeon is cheap and use it this way.  That pigeon is usually NOT a homer, and has no loft to fly home to, so after it is released it starves to death.  In fairness, all of the guys I talked to at poultry auctions thought that all pigeons could could just find their way home.  After I explained this to any number of hunters asking about buying my pigeons for training dogs, they have all stopped the practice and switched to using homers.  A dog trainer really only needs a couple of birds, they don't usually take a bunch of dogs in the field at once, and it is a lot cheaper and easier for him to keep a couple in his garage or shed than to make repeated trips to bird sales and pay for many birds he can only use once.  So there is no incentive for the hunter to continue once somebody explains this to him.

Sorry... maybe I was thinking about something else.

 

I have seen videos where people tie the pigeons legs together... and 'lock' the pigeons wings bending one behind the other... then thrown the live bird for the dog to retrieve..... Or they will use rubber bands on the birds wings to stop it flying a lot.

 

This is going to hurt the pigeon... and also it will be really stressful for it getting thrown.. and a dog grabbing it in its mouth.

 

What you describe sounds fine.

post #12 of 15

There's any number of inhumane people doing stupid cruel things to animals; I don't know what that was that you saw in a video.  For training labrador retrievers or "field trial dogs", ducks are usually used, and the duck is put in a protective jacket or sleeve sort of thing.  You could use a land bird as well I suppose.  Again, no hunter wants to have to buy a lot of ducks and be able to use a duck only once because it gets injured.  It is bred into retriever dogs, and reinforced by training, to have a "soft" mouth.  That means the dog must not bite what it's retrieving, must not cause any damage at all.  Puppies are started with dummies; some dogs never train on live birds at all.  I've seen dogs "retrieve" baby birds they found on the ground completely unharmed.

And although ducks are usually pretty nervous compared to chickens or turkeys, ducks that are kept for this training and used all the time get used to it and laidback about it.  If the dog owners also keep ducks or poultry though, they have to make sure to keep the dog out of their pastures or the dogs just keep retrieving all the birds over and over!  :)

post #13 of 15
All retriever breeders, mostly labs, in city, get trained on bought birds that are shaken then placed upside down with head tucked under (how to videos of this are all over utube and claim humane as any). The bird then flushed by dog barking pawing n nipping at, and as bird takes off its then shot to kill, as they're bought by box load for only two dollorsor less. Then the young dog usually mauls the bird up until its scolding sets in after times of this training. I've seen hunters in my FAM and many neighbors do and say about, only one I knew that kept a lone pigeon pinioned (tendon in wings cut) supposedly for twenty years to train with, this person given another pigeon to befriend the old lonely one, was tossed to young group of pups to tear apart to make them want to look for birds more, then later young dogs shown by being beaten if they tear up old one. This family competed in majur USA trials and were renounced breeders..
Attitudes hopefully are changing slowely, but many at sales still say cheaper n easier to keep buying when need than keep pigeons quail etc.
Edited by laughingdog - 2/10/16 at 1:35pm

keeping assorted bantams and standard chickens..    pigeons: "white dove release" racing homers, flying flights, flying birmingham rollers, parlor rollers, parlor tumblers, "coop tumblers", Chinease owls.

    Looking to talk to others who enjoy our pigeon/dove hobby.  Also looking to talk chickens, especially black bantam true rosecombs i hope to have again someday, as well as silkies, and...

Reply

keeping assorted bantams and standard chickens..    pigeons: "white dove release" racing homers, flying flights, flying birmingham rollers, parlor rollers, parlor tumblers, "coop tumblers", Chinease owls.

    Looking to talk to others who enjoy our pigeon/dove hobby.  Also looking to talk chickens, especially black bantam true rosecombs i hope to have again someday, as well as silkies, and...

Reply
post #14 of 15

It may depend on your area.  Friends of mine in Delaware bred champion field trial dogs, this is how the trained theirs, and how all their buddies trained their dogs.  Another friend and I, in Ohio, helped several bird dog guys get set up with their own (very small) flocks of pigeons for training, and shortly after I moved to my new place in PA, a guy stopped by the house (saw the pigeons in a flypen from the road) to ask about how to set up. 

 

Just my own opinion, but I would think that encouraging a dog to kill a bird at one time, then expecting it to retrieve with a soft mouth and no damage so you can put the bird in your pot another time, would give pretty poor results.  Again, my opinion, but I find that people who practice cruelty to animals tend to be not too high on the IQ scale to begin with, which is good I suppose, since they do it in front of others and eventually get in trouble.

 

I don't know what they cost in your area, but I was getting $5 a bird for culls at the auction I was going to (there's a big oriental market for pigeons for meat so there's buyers there bidding up the prices above rock bottom).  Even if they didn't care about the pigeons (and I'm not dumb enough to think they all do), most people don't want to lay out several hundred bucks a year for "killer" pigeons when they can keep a couple in the shed cheap.  Like I said, there are always people who do inhumane and stupid things.  Bad Karma, what goes around comes around at some point. 

post #15 of 15
I don't know if most, as I know some didnt even hunt, aside from young dog training n trials. I think most were just as seen that they used papers gotten to knock up prices they could sell pups for. Most lived in middle of city n just pellet guns in yards that I saw (I never went out hunting with them). My uncle never did with his dog n kept a couple of call ducks in a big box (aside from big fish tank he had for them to swim in when they n box got too dirty needing cleaning maybe daily to weekly) in basement, in Milwaukee WI.
Edited by laughingdog - 2/14/16 at 8:32am

keeping assorted bantams and standard chickens..    pigeons: "white dove release" racing homers, flying flights, flying birmingham rollers, parlor rollers, parlor tumblers, "coop tumblers", Chinease owls.

    Looking to talk to others who enjoy our pigeon/dove hobby.  Also looking to talk chickens, especially black bantam true rosecombs i hope to have again someday, as well as silkies, and...

Reply

keeping assorted bantams and standard chickens..    pigeons: "white dove release" racing homers, flying flights, flying birmingham rollers, parlor rollers, parlor tumblers, "coop tumblers", Chinease owls.

    Looking to talk to others who enjoy our pigeon/dove hobby.  Also looking to talk chickens, especially black bantam true rosecombs i hope to have again someday, as well as silkies, and...

Reply
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