After treatment of Coccidiosis - selling birds? - Page 2
My apologies to everyone I said thank you both but I meant to say thank you all.... and I was saying to my son today, who works with myself on the chickens.... BYC and the people on it are so great... its like having professionals in your pocket at all times. So Thank you again. Eggcessive I got the Durvet Vitamins and Electrolytes, powder formula and I also got Save a Chick pro biotics. I could have gone the yogurt route but this is less messy and I don't want to invite anymore cooties to the party. So thank you all for being with me.. I hope I don't loose this customer dude, but all things happen for a reason.
Since you stated you sell chicks, I presume with the desire to do so regularly, this is a lesson well learned and opportunity to rebuild and set up for long term care.
Crowded (especially wet and warm under a brooder light) conditions are one of the most common things that can bring on coccidiosis as the environment literally builds up with the oocysts with greater populations. Once the build up is present, unless it is removed, you risk repeated infections and overgrowth with each successive generation of new babies....and yet you do not want a perfectly sanitized enviornment (if any backyarder could truly get that) as you need some coccidia present to allow natural immune response. The goal is low enough coccidia numbers so that the chicks are not overwhelmed at too early an age.
Therefore, you will need to set up a healthy size area that is easy to clean and access. Keep litter clean and rotated out (disposing of old litter) or raise on wire (to prevent poo build up) or disposable boxes that you destroy after each batch. Make sure no water is splashing and pooling as warm, moist conditions create an environment for population explosions. (I keep my water dispensers in the broody hutch on plastic trays so that I can lift and clean to help keep the general area dry as chicks splash and are messy).
I have found that scrubbing with a hydrogen peroxide wash, leaving it to stand for 10 mintues, will reduce the oocysts. In order to really disinfect, you need to get stronger commercial grade disinfectant (which I didn't want to use due to the toxicity).
Keeping conditions clean with good ventilation really helps. You can decide if you want to use medicated chick start to further control outbreaks, which can be useful for chicks targeted for transit (albeit is not "organic" if that concerns you). Again the Amprolium based medicated chick start does not eradicate coccida but merely lowers their numbers until the bird is strong enough to keep them in check. I have done it both ways...I find chicks brought in from the feed store and placed with my broody hens in the hutch tend to need the medicated feed as they have no base for immunity build up and need a transition time. However, the chicks hatched under my broodies never have issues as momma is slowly introducing them from hatch with her poo....but always good litter rotation and dry conditions to prevent coccidia overgrowth with resultant oocyst build up.
Good luck on this batch and future.
Edited by Lady of McCamley - 12/6/15 at 2:25pm
Thank you Lady you are spot on, on so many points. I never had a problem either and have done it both ways as well (med-Non-med)... I think it was a combination of things, we have had days of rain so the humidity has been super high and I found the overhead fan turned off. Then add in Thanksgiving week when I was pulled away longer doing other stuff. If you have time I would like to see how you have your water containment. That is a huge problem I do raise them in very large cardboard boxes and they are disposed of after each hatch. But the constant banging of the water dripper makes such a mess, that the sides get wet so we started moving the water around as to give the cardboard time to dry. That works but it is a pain and I would like a remedy to the problem. I then thought I would put in a bowl so they could just dip and drink thought that might solve the problem... My birds are now 6 weeks so this problem came on probably week 4 so they were small but no risk of drowning.
I wanted to ask you about your clean up methods.....I read that nothing kills the oocysts, just extreme heat and extreme cold. I doubt any cold is coming my way, but I do have a torch and I could do that if need be. I guess I would have to have a fire extinguisher handy if something caught fire. But, had you heard that the peroxide would also kill it?
These birds are at my other house so I hope to leave this problem behind me.. When do I know they are not contagious? We have finished our treatment and are now on vitamins.
Thanks everyone for your time trying to help me. I truly appreciate it.
What I use is a pretty simple system for the water....I found a plastic tray, reused from a disposable pastry plate from the bakery section of the grocery store, I think, heavy enough not to tip easy, deep enough to keep water from splashing, low enough for chicks to get over, large enough to hold the water feeder with room for chicks to walk....you could even use a pie plate if it were low enough and heavy enough....or plastic plant trays.
The idea is the little dears climb and splash, but the water goes into the tray instead of pooling on the coop floor (with poo) which is harder to clean and as we know a great breeding ground for all things nasty. The tray is easy to lift out each time I change the water, and I can rinse and dry it off, helping to keep the whole area fresh and dry.
I never had a big problem with Coccidiosis until this summer when the weather was unseasonably warm for several months, and I too was called away for family issues (MIL had two stints placed in her heart), and the pooling water in an unusually unkempt coop created the right environment. I lost 2 grow out pullets (6 weeks old) and fought it for the next month.
Because of the severity this time, I wanted to deep clean the hutch better, rather than just remove dirty litter and poo spots, so I did some research and discovered that laundry additive hydrogen peroxide (such as Oxiclean) will help to eliminate bacteria and fungal spores, and in particular Coccidiosis...a study I read showed that other things eliminated Coccidia better, but there was a 50 to 60% reduction with H2O2...and I was looking for reduction, not total sterilization.
Mix a scoop in a ice cream bucket with hot water until sudsy, splosh on the bare wood...let it bubble and sizzle for 20 to 30 minutes, then scrape off organic material (which now comes off easy) and continue rinsing with soapy warm H2O2 until bare wood. You could really see and smell the difference, and the H2O2 helped remove the organic stuck on stuff. My troubles have been gone since I changed litter and did the sodium percarbonate wash.
I can't find the great article that convinced me H2O2 would do about 50 to 60% reduction of coccidia oocyts (of course....I hate it when my bookmark goes astray), but you can piece together efficacy from these other articles that I also bookmarked:
These studies show use of H2O2 with other mixtures as most effective (and caustic) but refer to use of Hydrogen Peroxide at high concentrations as effective
This article shows dry laundry detergent is high concentration of sodium precarbonate which breaks down to a 35% Hydrogen Peroxide concentration
This article shows high concentrates of hydrogen peroxide effective against most pathogens
Oxidizing Agents Examples: hydrogen peroxide, peracetic acid, Virkon-S® Oxidizing agents are broad spectrum, peroxide based compounds that function by denaturing the proteins and lipids of microorganisms.13 Peroxygen compounds vary in their microbiocidal range, but are considered effective on hard surfaces and equipment. In their diluted form, these agents are relatively safe but may be irritating and damage clothing when concentrated.11 Disinfection 101 13 Hydrogen peroxide in the home is in diluted form (3-10%) whereas industrial use involves concentrated solutions (30% or greater). Hydrogen peroxide (at a 5-20% concentration) is considered bactericidal, virucidal (non-enveloped viruses may be resistant), fungicidal and at high concentrations sporicidal. Its activity against mycobacteria is limited.15
As does this report on swine industry and swine coccidia oocyts
Peroxygens or oxidizing agents: Hydrogen peroxide is commonly used as an antiseptic. It is environmentally friendly and nonirritating in superficial wounds and skin. It comes in concentrations from 3 to 90% but is generally more costly at effective concentrations. It is rapidly degraded to water and oxygen in the presence of organic material and struggles with enough contact time on porous surfaces. By itself it is effective against many gram-positive bacteria, enveloped viruses, yeasts and bacterial spores. It is often combined with other biocides increasing activity and spectrum. It is worth mentioning that hydrogen peroxide may be the only disinfectant that significantly destroys the oocysts of piglet coccidosis. Examples of combination biocides are Hyperox and VirconS. Both are powerful disinfectants when properly applied to clean surfaces free of organic matter. VirconS is approved for FMD premise disinfection. Of interest, it has also been reported that treatment of Cryptosporidium oocysts with a mixture of 2.5% ammonium hydroxide with windshield washer fluid (resulted in a 104 fold reduction of oocysts after 13 minutes exposure with total kills after 24 hours. Studies are needed to determine if this mixture is effective against Isospora suis oocysts
And a list from a Wildlife Sanctuary showing the FDA approves Hydrogen Peroxide (Food Grade 35%) for uses in agricultural sanitization
I've had to do some inference, and I know I am not at sanitization levels, but I do know that dry laundry hydrogen peroxide (sodium percarbonate 35%) will be at the 30% or higher level if I mix it in hot water for heavy concentration, leave for 15 to 30 minutes, then wash...it should help reduce numbers of pathogens in particular coccidia oocysts. Seemed to work for me.
I like your tray idea...I will look for something I use wood chips and they get flung everywhere but I could just toss those under the dripper.
So I threw out the box and chips where the disease occurred started new with everything, even gave them an attached box now to double their space. They all look good but when do you think t could bring the birds to the new property? They are not contagious now right? Should I just leave them here for another 2 weeks to be sure? I have a patio outside I fenced off for them, but had to bring them in (to a clean box) when it just would not stop raining and things became flooded. We had days of rain, very unusual especially for this time of year. I think I might let them run around out there today if the weather stays dry....I should do the oxy wash too....omg....such a problem I feel like I am being punked...lets see her deal with this....now add 2 weeks of wet conditions ha ha ha....
Thanks! I will go read your links....
Wear plastic gloves as it will dry out your hands at this concentration, but I did not notice fumes like bleach has (which bothers my asthma).
In gathering the links I did notice there is also disinfectant use for soda ash (which Oxiclean breaks down to) and Borax, but I did not follow up and research those ingredients as I had Oxiclean laundry boost in the cupboard.
Good luck cleaning.