Horse Talk

Leah567 said:

Like my avatar! lol

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abigalerose said:

Out of the trainers we're talking about Monty Roberts, Clinton Anderson, Buck Brannaman and Parelli, I like Buck the best because he's sort of like a middle man, he's not as serious and "horses are only made for working" like Clinton but definitely not as... different? As Parelli lol. He also doesn't call his training a "method" which I like, because all of these trainers tend to use the same concepts and I don't like how Clinton always brags about his method working better than others, when it's quite similar to a lot of others. He's good but he's just too much for me lol. I can't get on board with a trainer if I get annoyed watching them. And Clinton and Parelli annoy me. I love good ole Buck, some of his stuff may be harder to find than others, but you should watch his movie on Netflix sometime.
Same goes with Rick Gore on YouTube, he's good and all but I cannot handle watching his videos.
But regradless, just find the style that works best with you and your horse!
Yes all the time! June always joins up with me and drops her head and chews, and there's always such a strong connection after that, like we can do anything together. I've had join ups with some of my other horses too but some of them I could never make it happen with.
Are you sure she's just being lazy? Sometime it seems like June is being lazy because she walks slowly to the middle but she's just relaxed, and as for the turning away from her, when you do that you're releasing the pressure and opening yourself up and inviting her in, body language says a lot! I always turn slightly at the end of lunging and relax one of my legs and June comes right to me

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PeepersMama said:

Quote: I've found that the spookier they are, the more dramatic the "join up" is. You most likely aren't driving her hard enough before you release, you want her pretty desperate for a break and somewhat sure that if you catch her you MAY just hit her with that stick... That's what a horse in a herd goes through, the horse that is driving them off WILL bite and kick if they catch them, so the horse is in some actual fear while being driven away, and they are in fear while they aren't in the herd due to being easy prey. Ginger also may not be showing respect, she could just know you expect her to come in and so she is. Stud doesn't really lick and chew much, but when I allow him in, he comes in FAST, he trots or canters right up to about 4 feet from me (the closest I will allow him to approach me, I don't want him sneaking up on me and knocking me over, i can walk up to him, he has to stop 4 feet away) and then drops his eyes to my chest level which is a bit below withers for him (he's 16 hands and I'm 5'3") and takes a deep breath. If I walk over he will actually press his forehead into my chest and "cuddle" for a few minutes. But even when he has come in, he is still respectful and responcive, I can send him back out at any time and he doesn't walk out unless I make it a point that i want him walking, he usually spins and LEAPS in the direction I ask and either fast trots or canters from there.

How does she react when you are longing her? Stud is always bent towards me, to the point sometimes that I can see both eyes from the center, neck arched, and just WAITING for me to tell him to do something, he also is rarely at the outside of the round pen, he's comfortable about 10 feet from me, but at a slow trot I can get him to where I can put my stick on his back and he'll circle me on his own.

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Kusanar said:

I've found that the spookier they are, the more dramatic the "join up" is. You most likely aren't driving her hard enough before you release, you want her pretty desperate for a break and somewhat sure that if you catch her you MAY just hit her with that stick... That's what a horse in a herd goes through, the horse that is driving them off WILL bite and kick if they catch them, so the horse is in some actual fear while being driven away, and they are in fear while they aren't in the herd due to being easy prey. Ginger also may not be showing respect, she could just know you expect her to come in and so she is. Stud doesn't really lick and chew much, but when I allow him in, he comes in FAST, he trots or canters right up to about 4 feet from me (the closest I will allow him to approach me, I don't want him sneaking up on me and knocking me over, i can walk up to him, he has to stop 4 feet away) and then drops his eyes to my chest level which is a bit below withers for him (he's 16 hands and I'm 5'3") and takes a deep breath. If I walk over he will actually press his forehead into my chest and "cuddle" for a few minutes. But even when he has come in, he is still respectful and responcive, I can send him back out at any time and he doesn't walk out unless I make it a point that i want him walking, he usually spins and LEAPS in the direction I ask and either fast trots or canters from there.

How does she react when you are longing her? Stud is always bent towards me, to the point sometimes that I can see both eyes from the center, neck arched, and just WAITING for me to tell him to do something, he also is rarely at the outside of the round pen, he's comfortable about 10 feet from me, but at a slow trot I can get him to where I can put my stick on his back and he'll circle me on his own.

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PeepersMama said:

Quote:
Honestly, if she is old and stiff and not being disrespectful, even if she isn't being super respectful, I wouldn't push the issue, but with the younger ones I would really get after them to make them move out. I never did any of the natural horsemanship with my old Appaloosa because he wasn't unsafe as he was, and his joints didn't need all of the pounding on them. As long as when you ask her to move, she does without giving you attitude, I would leave her alone, but if she pins her ears (in a nasty way) or gives another sign of resistance and being disrespectful, then I would give her a good chase ONCE to remind her who is boss, and then go back to more or less leaving her alone unless she gives you good reason to give her a hard time.

I found with my old App, that the cheap MSM and cheap Glucosamine powders from horse.com worked great on him, he would go from dragging his toes and limping around to chasing the other horses around the field and bucking around from being on those 2 supplements daily for a while. Buying both of those is cheaper than buying one of the supplements with multiple things in them. I kept Thunder's Glucosamine at the recommended amount on the tub, and gave him the recommended amount of MSM when he wasn't working, but days I rode him I would double the MSM and add half a bute (he was 30+ years old and had quite a bit of joint problems) but only on days he was being worked.

The young ones, I push them within reason, I don't drill them into the ground, but if they give me lip, I don't feel bad about having a couple hour long round pen session if that's what it takes to get them respectful again. Usually it doesn't take that much, but I'm willing to go there if they are.

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Kusanar said:

I've found that the spookier they are, the more dramatic the "join up" is. You most likely aren't driving her hard enough before you release, you want her pretty desperate for a break and somewhat sure that if you catch her you MAY just hit her with that stick... That's what a horse in a herd goes through, the horse that is driving them off WILL bite and kick if they catch them, so the horse is in some actual fear while being driven away, and they are in fear while they aren't in the herd due to being easy prey. Ginger also may not be showing respect, she could just know you expect her to come in and so she is. Stud doesn't really lick and chew much, but when I allow him in, he comes in FAST, he trots or canters right up to about 4 feet from me (the closest I will allow him to approach me, I don't want him sneaking up on me and knocking me over, i can walk up to him, he has to stop 4 feet away) and then drops his eyes to my chest level which is a bit below withers for him (he's 16 hands and I'm 5'3") and takes a deep breath. If I walk over he will actually press his forehead into my chest and "cuddle" for a few minutes. But even when he has come in, he is still respectful and responcive, I can send him back out at any time and he doesn't walk out unless I make it a point that i want him walking, he usually spins and LEAPS in the direction I ask and either fast trots or canters from there.

How does she react when you are longing her? Stud is always bent towards me, to the point sometimes that I can see both eyes from the center, neck arched, and just WAITING for me to tell him to do something, he also is rarely at the outside of the round pen, he's comfortable about 10 feet from me, but at a slow trot I can get him to where I can put my stick on his back and he'll circle me on his own.

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PeepersMama said:

Okay... I'll have to be harder on her then. I don't usually make her run AT ALL, since she's old, and acts older than she is :/ old and stiff describes her pretty well I think she might have some arthritis, so I don't ever make her run at anything beyond a quick trot. I've been trying to coax dad I to buying her a senior supplement, but.... He's tough to coax I don't roundpen her too much, but I always start in the roundpen wit Smoke , and soon to be Armira - we leave sometime today e

Yeah, that's what she AND smoke do! Well okay maybe not Smoke... I have to go out and catch him if we aren't longing.
She listens to voice commands better than any horse live ever had - especially if I say whoa and if I just barely step in front of her drive line, she stops and swings her head in it gets annoying.

She doesn't ever lick much, but she would rather be hanging out in the middle with me than trot around. If,/when she gets pushy, all I have to do is give a good smack with a crop and she remembers to be respectful.

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abigalerose said:

Quote:
I agree entirely, I don't think I said that the horse needed to be afraid of you, but if I did, I didn't mean too. The horse needs to feel a good bit of pressure and be sure that if it doesn't move out when asked that they WILL be whacked... and in actuality, that's the reality for my horses, if they don't move out and I CAN get close enough to them, then they will be wacked with the stick, it's just what happens. When I said that a spooky horse is easier, I probably should have said reactive, they are more sensitive and are SO relieved that you aren't going to kill them that they just relax, the more dull and lazy ones aren't that impressed.

All of mine are on the slightly reactive side naturally, even Stud is pretty spooky by nature, but I have gotten them to respect and trust me and for the most part, they don't spook at much. I HATE working with a really dead head horse, makes me run too much, and my knees and ankles just can't take it anymore, so the kind of spooky ones are nice, you spend all day trying to get them to slow down and hardly have to take a step.

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tastyacres said:

Quote:
Thanks!

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Kusanar said:

Monty Roberts wants to be the horses friend, he gets respect, but not to the point that I am comfortable with, Parelli REALLY wants to be the horses friend, and if the horse doesn't want to do something when you ask, that's fine, ask again later. That's one reason that his stuff is called "games" you don't force a friend to play a game with you, you ask if they want to and if they say no, then you drop it... I don't want my horse telling me "no, I don't want to step off of your foot, try asking me again in a few hours" I want an immediate "yes ma'am!" when I ask them to do something. Before I found Clinton I thought that the natural horsemanship was a bunch of cool tricks, but it wasn't TRAINING...

If I were to pull a mustang off the range, I would read all of Monty Roberts' books and watch Shy Boy, he has almost an instinct about horses and he can explain WHY they do what they do in a wild herd and how to mimic that wild behavior to speak to the horse in a language they understand. He is very good at explaining the psychology of the horse and has worked wonders on several very dangerous horses, but again, most of what he does is on the ground, but not really in hand work, more round pen and developing the relationship through a shared language. Shy Boy is a mustang that he used to prove that his techniques work on wild horses outside of the round pen, he was barely handled when pulled off the range, then turned out with a nearly wild herd of domesticated horses for another year and not touched until Monty went out and cut him out of the herd to train him. I can't remember the time line exactly, but I believe in less than a week, they had his first rider on him and rode him off the range.

Once I had the understanding from Monty, I would use Clinton's method to do the training. Clinton knows what works and is good at telling you exactly what to do when, but I'm not sure how much he understands WHY it works, that's why I say to learn from Monty, then use that understanding on Clinton's method to make it make even more sense to you.

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