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Breeding/Genetics curiousity

post #1 of 7
Thread Starter 
I've been doing a lot of research as I begin the breeding experience, and have a question. I am curious if (obviously this would take years if its even remotely possible but..) anyone has ever tried, or had any luck (even subtle results) in trying to make a non-dimorphic breed (in my case, it would be Pomeranians) dimorphic by crossing with either a Pilgrim or a Cotton Patch.

Ok, so from what I think so far, if I bred my Pom gal to a Pilgrim gander, I could get a 50/50 shot of results, with some being dimorpic (more Pilgrim boys, I think?) but those would carry the grey gene? So if I continued and bred that gander, etc, etc...Would I eventually end up with a somewhat, even slight, dimorphic goose?

Or...Would my best shot be a Cotton Patch gander, as color is already similar to the Pom, but maybe years of carefully selective line breeding would result in a Pom that is somewhat dimorphic?

Any ideas?
post #2 of 7
Thread Starter 
I should clarify that last part and say a Pom LOOKING goose that is somewhat dimorphic, I think.

I ask because I will be getting two more babies next month, a male and a female, to complete a trio with Cassy, my year old Pom goose. The three breeds I am deciding between are more Poms, Pilgrims and Cotton Patch, the latter two for their dimorphism mainly.

If this can be done, or if there is even a chance it can be done, I want to try it, and write my thesis on it.

My theory on endangered geese breeds is perhaps if even a novice could tell male from female, maybe it would help the breed bounce back a bit, instead of waiting until they lay or dont lay resulting in a year of feeding and space only to lead to culling and retrying for the needed gender?

Maybe its far fetched, maybe not. For those who cant or dont want to sex their geese?
post #3 of 7
I think it's an awe
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvenLater View Post

I should clarify that last part and say a Pom LOOKING goose that is somewhat dimorphic, I think.

I ask because I will be getting two more babies next month, a male and a female, to complete a trio with Cassy, my year old Pom goose. The three breeds I am deciding between are more Poms, Pilgrims and Cotton Patch, the latter two for their dimorphism mainly.

If this can be done, or if there is even a chance it can be done, I want to try it, and write my thesis on it.

My theory on endangered geese breeds is perhaps if even a novice could tell male from female, maybe it would help the breed bounce back a bit, instead of waiting until they lay or dont lay resulting in a year of feeding and space only to lead to culling and retrying for the needed gender?

Maybe its far fetched, maybe not. For those who cant or dont want to sex their geese?

I think it's an awesome idea, when I have the time I'm going to attempt to "create" a spotted goose, spots like a snowy owl but on geese. I'm sure it can be done. You'll need to seriously research WHY pilgrims are dimorphic first though.

As for bringing the breed back, I don't think it would help *that* much because think of Toulouse, they're the most popular goose breed next to Embden and you can't tell their gender by appearance. I think that some are endangered because they're less productive, less available, more expensive. Barnyard geese like Toulouse are readily available, so maybe you could start a breeding program for the breed instead??

But the dimorphic Pom idea is very interesting, how would you tell the difference? Gray vs Buff? Or?
R.I.P. Pear, you'll always be in my heart. Fly over that rainbow bridge for me.
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R.I.P. Pear, you'll always be in my heart. Fly over that rainbow bridge for me.
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post #4 of 7

I have no doubt it could be done. The males would most likely be very similar to Pilgrim ganders in with white coloring.  I don't have the time or land or money but I wondered about crossing the Sebastopol and Pilgrims to get a color sexed Seb. Sebastopol have frequently been crossed with other breeds to get colors and patterns. There are some gorgeous Seb crosses I have seen pictures of. Sebs are normally just white so any Sebs with color are not pure. Cottage Rose here on BYC has done amazing work with hers.

 

Here are a couple of links I personally found helpful.

 

Pomeranian Goose Genetics

 

Auto sexing geese

post #5 of 7
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrosaur View Post

I think it's an awe
I think it's an awesome idea, when I have the time I'm going to attempt to "create" a spotted goose, spots like a snowy owl but on geese. I'm sure it can be done. You'll need to seriously research WHY pilgrims are dimorphic first though.

As for bringing the breed back, I don't think it would help *that* much because think of Toulouse, they're the most popular goose breed next to Embden and you can't tell their gender by appearance. I think that some are endangered because they're less productive, less available, more expensive. Barnyard geese like Toulouse are readily available, so maybe you could start a breeding program for the breed instead??

But the dimorphic Pom idea is very interesting, how would you tell the difference? Gray vs Buff? Or?

Ok, here's what I guess from reading online and using the goose color calculator. Please correct me if this is wrong? If I cross my Pom goose (pied gene) to a Cotton Patch gander (dimorphic, white but carries pied gene) the results should be dimorphic young, resembling CP goslings indentifiable at hatch. Females resemble a typical Pom/Saddleback gosling with dark bill and darker markings, and males would be lighter with light bills?

This is going to take generations of picky crossings, but I'm determined! Lol 😊 Luckily, we are moving back to a farm within 2 years, Lol
post #6 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvenLater View Post

Ok, here's what I guess from reading online and using the goose color calculator. Please correct me if this is wrong? If I cross my Pom goose (pied gene) to a Cotton Patch gander (dimorphic, white but carries pied gene) the results should be dimorphic young, resembling CP goslings indentifiable at hatch. Females resemble a typical Pom/Saddleback gosling with dark bill and darker markings, and males would be lighter with light bills?

This is going to take generations of picky crossings, but I'm determined! Lol 😊 Luckily, we are moving back to a farm within 2 years, Lol

Hmmmmm. I don't know if ALL the geese born would be dimorphic. Remember each goose gets half of his traits from both parents, so unless the dimorphic trait is 100% dominant over all other genes then I don't think every baby will be dimorphic, and even if they were, you need to remember if you cross some back to a Pom then their recessive genes might match up with the Poms lack of dimorphic gene and then you would be back to square 1.
R.I.P. Pear, you'll always be in my heart. Fly over that rainbow bridge for me.
Reply
R.I.P. Pear, you'll always be in my heart. Fly over that rainbow bridge for me.
Reply
post #7 of 7
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrosaur View Post

Hmmmmm. I don't know if ALL the geese born would be dimorphic. Remember each goose gets half of his traits from both parents, so unless the dimorphic trait is 100% dominant over all other genes then I don't think every baby will be dimorphic, and even if they were, you need to remember if you cross some back to a Pom then their recessive genes might match up with the Poms lack of dimorphic gene and then you would be back to square 1.

So then breeding two offspring that exhibit the dimorphic gene would increase the chance of dimorphic young, right? Hmm...Hope DH won't mind some expanding...Lol!
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