Too much calcium?

Birdrain92 said:

Quote:
Well, except for the part of grossly over-estimating the calcium... the egg shell weight is much less than the weight of the liquid contents. So instead of 2 ounces times 0.4, it's gonna be less than 1/4 ounce times 0.4. (I just weighed a chicken egg shell -- slightly damp with the membrane inside, it was 7 grams.) There aren't 0.8 ounces of shell IN an egg shell. 0.4 x 7 grams is 2.8 grams, or 2800 milligrams of calcium, which is still an overestimate since I didn't dry the shell or peel out the membrane.

@KsKingBee 's birds are getting about 1/10 of an eggshell each per day, or something less than 280 mg of elemental calcium per bird, in addition to the amount of calcium in the feed already. That's about as much calcium as in a glass of milk, or as much calcium as in 4 crickets.

Hens lay a whole pea-egg's worth of calcium every other day during laying season -- in addition to the other ways they use up calcium, they are excreting that much more in their own shells. So they excrete more than five times as much calcium per day as would be added.

A dozen chicken eggs would have less than 34 grams of calcium (that's roughly an ounce) total in the whole pile of shells. I strongly suspect that the weight of feed (dry weight, before adding water moisture) for 100 birds is more like 3 kilograms (roughly 6 1/2 pounds) or maybe more... 34 grams x 100 is 3400 grams, which is 3.4 kg... if the feed weighs that much or more, he's adding 1% or less. The more the feed weighs, the lower percent of calcium it adds.

To bump up a 50lb bag of feed (22.73 kg) by 3.5% calcium, you would have to add 795 grams of calcium -- that's about 1 3/4 pounds of elemental calcium, which would be almost 2 kg (4.4 lb) of egg shells. That's the egg shells from about 284 eggs (almost 24 dozen eggs) added to the bag of feed. Every 81 egg shells increases the percent of calcium in the 50 lb bag by 1%.
Using metric units is MUCH easier here.

Here are two very cool articles about calcium and other nutrients in bugs and insects -- some favorite pea treats!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...inerals-imagine-ordering-mealworm-burger.html

http://www.organicvaluerecovery.com/studies/studies_nutrient_content_of_insects.htm

Insects are PACKED with protein and calcium, in case you are hungry...

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Garden Peas said:

Looking at the calcium math from an even more interesting angle, @KsKingBee if you are feeding a dozen eggs to around 100 birds, that's about 1/10 of an eggshell per bird.

Well, except for the part of grossly over-estimating the calcium... the egg shell weight is much less than the weight of the liquid contents. So instead of 2 ounces times 0.4, it's gonna be less than 1/4 ounce times 0.4. (I just weighed a chicken egg shell -- slightly damp with the membrane inside, it was 7 grams.) There aren't 0.8 ounces of shell IN an egg shell. 0.4 x 7 grams is 2.8 grams, or 2800 milligrams of calcium, which is still an overestimate since I didn't dry the shell or peel out the membrane.

@KsKingBee 's birds are getting about 1/10 of an eggshell each per day, or something less than 280 mg of elemental calcium per bird, in addition to the amount of calcium in the feed already. That's about as much calcium as in a glass of milk, or as much calcium as in 4 crickets.

Hens lay a whole pea-egg's worth of calcium every other day during laying season -- in addition to the other ways they use up calcium, they are excreting that much more in their own shells. So they excrete more than five times as much calcium per day as would be added.

A dozen chicken eggs would have less than 34 grams of calcium (that's roughly an ounce) total in the whole pile of shells. I strongly suspect that the weight of feed (dry weight, before adding water moisture) for 100 birds is more like 3 kilograms (roughly 6 1/2 pounds) or maybe more... 34 grams x 100 is 3400 grams, which is 3.4 kg... if the feed weighs that much or more, he's adding 1% or less. The more the feed weighs, the lower percent of calcium it adds.

To bump up a 50lb bag of feed (22.73 kg) by 3.5% calcium, you would have to add 795 grams of calcium -- that's about 1 3/4 pounds of elemental calcium, which would be almost 2 kg (4.4 lb) of egg shells. That's the egg shells from about 284 eggs (almost 24 dozen eggs) added to the bag of feed. Every 81 egg shells increases the percent of calcium in the 50 lb bag by 1%.
Using metric units is MUCH easier here.

Here are two very cool articles about calcium and other nutrients in bugs and insects -- some favorite pea treats!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...inerals-imagine-ordering-mealworm-burger.html

http://www.organicvaluerecovery.com/studies/studies_nutrient_content_of_insects.htm

Insects are PACKED with protein and calcium, in case you are hungry...

Click to expand...

Birdrain92 said:

I know the shell is lighter but since I couldn't find the weight last night I just used it as an example though in reality it's not. You just need to take certain numbers out and plug certain numbers in. Same equation and process.

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Garden Peas said:

When I re-weighed my egg shell (after letting it dry for a few hours), it was down to 6 grams -- I think the membrane was holding a lot of moisture. That 6 gm weight still includes the membrane tissue, so still a bit of an over-estimate of the shell weight.

My son was teasing me last night that my new "standard reference unit" for the amount of calcium in anything is going to be the cricket. As in, food item z has about the same amount of calcium as x number of crickets. For example, there are about 4 cricket's worth of calcium in a glass of milk. And just like milk, apparently you can get your crickets chocolate-flavored these days

We can get approximate numbers for calcium content for most any of your feed ingredients by looking on the internet. But before we crunch your whole feed, I really do think we should just do a simple comparison of the weight of the eggshells you are adding compared to the dry weight of your feed ingredients. Chances are that will tell us that the added calcium is well under 1%, and is not going to change the dietary level of calcium in the feed ration significantly.

After that, if you would still like to calculate it out to the gnat's eyelash, we can charge onward.

Here is a nicely written article, in understandable language, which explains the issues that you mention:

http://nilesanimalhospital.com/files/2012/05/Calcium-Phosphorus-and-Vitamin-D3-Imbalances.pdf

Worth noting -- the oils in seeds and grains may bind calcium in the intestine, preventing it from being used in the body. So that's something to read carefully and think about.

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KsKingBee said:

Wow, you guys are all over this! and I thought I was over it...

Ok, we shall noodle this out, but first I will get some good numbers.

All my breeding pens have broken egg shells (chicken) on the ground, I assume that if they needed more that they would clean that up. I will check the labels again today for the calcium content of each of the additives in my mash and weigh the dry ingredients. Some of the ingredients will have no listings on the label like the crimped milo or the whole oats. The Alfalfa, Game Bird Breeder/Starter, and Catfish food will. We won't worry about the mackerel, bananas, or peanuts as they are not an everyday staple.

Thanks again, I just don't want to cause some type of internal problem by overloading them up with too much of anything.

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Birdrain92 said:

If they need the calcium they will clean it up. Well right now I'm in a college Animal Science class and we just had a test about how to make rations for a certain animal in a certain stage in life, mixing 3 or more feeds to achieve a certain % of nutrition for a certain weight of feed, and then figuring out the price. It's a lengthy process. I'll post a video teaching you all how to do a Pearson square. I could do it without the square but it's easy to get lost without it.

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