**Urgent**help/advice needed please! Late hatch, no internal external pip

As above, I know you lot probably sick of hearing this as I've been through most if not all threads on here regarding late hatches.

Right now I'm on day 23 going into 24. I've sulmtaler bantam eggs in and a black japanese in a hatcher at mo. They needed lockdown 4 days before my other batch so I fired up my spare incubator set it to hatching conditions/lockdown.

Day 20 black jap egg wiggling mental most others were not.

Hatch day up till now NO movement, or pips in any of the eggs.

BUT today to be on safe side, I candled the jap egg and a sulmtaler (all under strict humid conditions as I was scared stiff I'd shrink wrap them had they internally piped.

Anyway, both eggs I checked full and very much alive and hopefully well. I couldn't see an internal pip but I'm unsure what to look for, I saw the japanese right at the edge of the air cell but not IN it, the air cell was fluttering if you know what I mean? Is this internal pip then no?

All back in bator but I'm stumped to know why they're SOO late, this is my 5th hatch with latest being day 22.

I know the temps effect this but I had no issue temp wise, only humidity high in the day never above 60 tho if it went up near 60% I let some hum out! then it was low at night no lower than 40%.

Any input greatly appreciated folks, the internal pip has me stumped tbh as I saw no beak as such just the flutter.

WeeNicole said:

As above, I know you lot probably sick of hearing this as I've been through most if not all threads on here regarding late hatches.

Right now I'm on day 23 going into 24. I've sulmtaler bantam eggs in and a black japanese in a hatcher at mo. They needed lockdown 4 days before my other batch so I fired up my spare incubator set it to hatching conditions/lockdown.

Day 20 black jap egg wiggling mental most others were not.

Hatch day up till now NO movement, or pips in any of the eggs.

BUT today to be on safe side, I candled the jap egg and a sulmtaler (all under strict humid conditions as I was scared stiff I'd shrink wrap them had they internally piped.

Anyway, both eggs I checked full and very much alive and hopefully well. I couldn't see an internal pip but I'm unsure what to look for, I saw the japanese right at the edge of the air cell but not IN it, the air cell was fluttering if you know what I mean? Is this internal pip then no?

All back in bator but I'm stumped to know why they're SOO late, this is my 5th hatch with latest being day 22.

I know the temps effect this but I had no issue temp wise, only humidity high in the day never above 60 tho if it went up near 60% I let some hum out! then it was low at night no lower than 40%.

Any input greatly appreciated folks, the internal pip has me stumped tbh as I saw no beak as such just the flutter.

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First, have you ever checked your thermometers and hygrometers for accuracy?? If you haven't checked them, then you don't know for certain that the temps are correct. It definitely sounds like your temps are running low. Is your incubator still or forced air and what temps are you running at? As for humidity, unless you are in a high elevation or using a cabinet incubator, those leves are what I consider high and I much prefer a low humidity incubation letting my air cells guide me to if and when to adjust. What you are describing sounds like the chick is pushing up against the air cell, but not pipped through yet. When they internally pip you will see a triangular shape sticking up into it and if you tap on the air cell you generally can see it move or tap back. (There are also instances where an upside malpositioned chick will push up on the air cell membrane with it's foot/backend.)

Now, you are aware that the Black Japanese Bantams carry a lethal gene called the "creeper" gene? This is the gene that detemined shortness of the legs.If two short legged jap bantams are bred together it is expected that 25% or 1/4 of the chicks (the ones that get 2 copies of the gene) will die in the shell. 50% will carry one copy of the gene which means they will hae the desired short legs and 25% will not carry the gene and have longer legs.

And you are not going to shrinkwrap an egg that isn't even pipped and have a slim chance if it was.

Yes I've two thermometers going as I don't trust the digital readout displayed on bator.. The bator only went to higher humidity during the day which easily corrected by opening the bator to let the humidity out when it got too high.

Im doing same methods as I did with the past hatches in the same incubator same place. Only more thermometers as above.

As for the black jap im fully aware this egg was gave to me accidently and I wung it in incubator to see anyway. If it hatches it'll not belong to me it'll go back to the owner of this breed.

As of today no change, still alive tho. Im mind boggled as yes it comes in as being temp issues but as stated above I thoroughly check temps

Oh and its fan forced