Originally Posted by PeepersMama
First of all, that was a very creative analogy!
Second, I (personally) am not a fan of rock, or even pop. My church is very conservative, and I grew up singing "old fashioned" songs, so even if she wasn't uncomfortable at a concert like that, I know I would be When a person is saved, he/she becomes "a new ceature," and when they see that people can be saved, but still enjoy the things of the world, then they might just pray the prayer so they can "be saved"; only God knows their true heart. Yes, I know that all it takes to get to heaven is beliving that Jesus died and rose agin for your sins, but the biggest impact is made when they see how changed a person becomes when Jesus comes into their heart. Believe me, I know you can have fun at church (my youth pastor eats live goldfish on occasion ) and this friday we're doing our anual "shoppers in diguise," which is a lot of fun, but "old things are passed away, behold, all things are become new!" Romans 8:...8 I think says "The carnal mind is emnity against God (KJV)" A wordly mindset tries to find a way to combine their love of God and the world, but it's really like trying to mix oil and water - you can't! God is holy, righteous, just, pure, and good. He loves us all, but he can't let any bad thing go unpunished. The passage pastor preached on this morning was talking about a lady in the church of Sardis, who taught that "because we are under God's grace, we can sin as much as we want!" God said that he would lay her in the bed of death (hell) and that he would kill all of the people who followed her. Yeah, he's the Lamb of God, and the Lion of Judah. And BTW, Romans 6:1-2 completely de-bunks "living under grace." It's an awesome passage.
I don't wish to offend anyone here at all; just stating what I have been taught. I don't believe that people who listen to that kind of music are horrible, wicked sinners; if they're saved, they're going to heaven, but if they aren't...
I wish that I could bring Tor to church with me, but she lives in a different state (). Maybe if she and Granny got along better, they could go to church together... she's got respect issues, too I love her like crazy, but Mom and Dad wouldn't like it if I got her number; I start acting too much like her when I hang out with her ( i.e., talking so much like her, her mom can't tell us apart over the phone)
I am not offended, nor do I wish to offend.... I completely disagree with you about debunking grace that's like saying Jesus death on the cross wasn't enough! And many people can twist the bible into whatever they want it to mean especially when taken out of context. I believe in the God of LOVE and yes discipline, but not punishment! I site Romans since it's your favorite book, Romans 8:1. Here is a link that is more along my understanding... https://gotquestions.org/God-punish-sin.html And John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. No, I don't believe it's a free pass to continue sinning but I do believe that God will convict you in your heart if that's where you are in your development. And I do believe that none of us (including you) can take the splinter out of someone else's eye when there is a log sticking out of our own. By that, I mean... your desire to lift your cousin up is admirable, just don't start thinking that you are so much better because of her sin. Remember NO man is good. So, let ye who is without sin cast the first stone! My actual favorite verse is Romans 3:23-24... for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, ah Romans again! No, I don't think it's a free pass... 2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. That includes us "born agains" as I've been called. If you keep reading on to Romans 6 to verse 14 you will see it also says "For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace."
People love to say "you spare the rod you spoil the child". In fact it says "he who spares the rod hates his son. He who loves his son disciplines him diligently" Prov 13:24
Argh I can't stand thieves and liars, and that's who Jesus spent his time with!
It took a long time to figure out if I wanted to go to heaven to be with God or to avoid punishment that so many like to fear monger people into believing they will burn in hell forever... I don't know, it's says the wages of sin is death.
Yes, All thing old have passed away is a great verse to stand on and one that Teen Challenge teaches their residents to try and help them get past their pasts. I do agree, but understand.... I was babtised very young, before I even had a true understanding of what I was receiving. But I didn't feel instantly different, more like confused. I still had the same color hair and eyes. I still hurt in my heart that my parents were in prison and my siblings were strewn across the state in foster care. I still had the weight of the world pressing down on me. The same friends and family and the same thought processes. It was a long time after I met my new friend Jesus and became in relation with him that I started taking on his characteristics. So yes, I was a new creature in Christ, a baby who needed the milk (maybe a preacher like Joel Olsteen who teaches the milk then says"find yourself a good bible based church" so you can get some meat of the bible once you have teeth to chew it). No, I couldn't walk in his path or even reach out to touch his garment yet. Then I began to crawl.... and reach out for things to try (as babies do) not knowing that they might hurt me and yes my father disciplined me. And continues to lead me into discipleship, notice the root of the word? Now I am a child... of the Most High God! Though I do my best to walk in his path sometimes I stumble or loose my way....
So we will not all mature at the same time. Sounds to me like you were raised in a great family that loved the lord and never let you stray from his teachings. But your cousin...? Why does she need to get along with your grandmother better? Where are her parents, was she not raised in the same environment? Are they not believers?
It's OK that you don't like rock or pop, I was just giving general ideas... Because, God will meet us right where we are, even prison. You mean to tell me you don't like the Newsboys or Toby Mac?! I have gone to several Christian concerts with more than one genre playing. Example, Spirit West Coast had a bunch of different stages where you could see the band you liked. And Winter Jam was only $10 to see about 10 bands. It's all worship and some short teachings. I guess it doesn't have to be you who reaches out to your cousin. I always wanted to be the one lifting people out of the darkness. But as you noticed, it's easier for you to act like them than it is to remain true and bring them up. So I don't blame your parents, for not wanting her bad habits to rub off on you. I just thought if it was important to you you might step outside your comfort zone (a little, not going to a metal concert) and invite her to a church sanctioned event where she wasn't made to feel like so many before her... A sinner with a stone tied to her feet! Especially the "conservative" crowd can make someone feel uncomfortable with their often holier than thou attitudes, but more than that, unwelcome! Any of your youth type events would be great! (I'm not gonna lie though, christian kids are just as evil and mean when it comes to someone being different than you) Your youth pastor sounds like he knows how to get the kids attention and hold it. I know Tor lives in another state, so it might take planning. But God knows your heart is to introduce her to him. Maybe a group event will let you be together without stepping to far into her shoes, is my thinking. If you can arrange going to church camp or something like that together.... I recently pulled my support for KLOVE and AIR1 because I felt called elsewhere and have been praying about where God wants my tythe to go (sorry guys, I'm not committed to 1 church). It's been laid on my heart that I might be able to sponsor you both to a sanctioned event... Camp is my favorite because it takes you out of your everyday environment and gives you enough time to possibly see the Truth a little clearer. I thought about PM ing my offer so I don't get grouped into those doing for their own glory, but IDC what most of the world thinks... So I hope you can talk with your pastor, parents, and cousin and come up with something you might really enjoy together, to the glory of God! Yes, the change in your life is the greatest evidence of God's victory and she might get the chance to see it up close and personal, and want that light to shine from within her as well! Most kids I know are heavily into music, why I recommended Christian concerts. Yep, there was a secular song my (then) 15 year old daughter was listening to secretly because we wouldn't let her, that literally SAVED HER LIFE! Thank you God for the music. It says in Romans 8:28 (again!) And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
It's weird how some people are born with obedient hearts and others are born disobedient, how you describe your cousin. You never have to teach a kid what they shouldn't do. They somehow magically know that. But you have to teach them obedience and what they should do. My sister has never been to respectful or rather liked to buck authority for as long as I can remember. She was always the one getting the wooden spoon broke on her hind end, among many other abusive scenarios. Her heart is gold and she would give the shirt off her back to ANYONE who needed it, even her enemy. But she is sick with mental illness, all her kids have been in foster care... I just don't understand! If God new us before he placed us into these bodies that means he knew she was disobedient before birth and then was placed into my SICK family! Life isn't fair. I suffer it also but to a lesser degree and with an obedient heart. I am medicated by the doctors who God gave the knowledge. But what makes me the one who was fortunate enough to live differently? Maybe you can lift her up, name is Sonya! God, I miss my sister. We never called each other anything other than Sister!
I'm not talking about combining your love of the world with your love of God. But He did create this world and everything in it! Including rock music, drugs, mental illness and Satan. Did you know some people use the church and what they accomplish for it as their drug. Some pastors even put the church before their marriage and I don't believe that is serving God. It is more likely serving themselves in some manor.
On a side note, you seem very confident and on fire for the Lord. I can't help but wonder.... has he seen you through truly hard times? A marriage (as an example of a committed relationship with God) can be hunky dory as long as we are all happy, but the vow says in good times and bad. But it says their will be trouble in this world. Pretty sure Job got more than he bargained for or deserved. Will I be faithful like that? Will you? Children raised in a happy home have a very different perspective than those raised in a broken home. My only real point is don't be so fast to think your cousin won't find her way to Jesus or that in any way she is less than you.
Nope, I'm not religious... yep raised babtist and penticostal, assembly of God, four square, you name it ... everything except Catholic, Mormon, and Jehovas' witness. I'm a Jesus Freak who knows the world including the church can make up and fight about all the rules they want to ..... but there's only ONE way... John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Anyways, my point is try to find something in common where she can meet your heavenly father. In case you can't, I will pray that someone comes into her life that can help lift her above the waves of the world that toss to and fro that she might have her sights set on Jesus! Sometimes it's hard to see the beacon when you are caught in the storm. And a drowning person will take you down with them. So I get where your parents are coming from...
Thank you for the interesting discussion. In no way do I intend to go against you, your pastor, or anyone else. To me the Bible is the Living Word of God. And the fact that it is living means it is also ever changing and growing. What certain verses mean to someone can change at different periods in their life. It will grow with your understanding. And even though it is the truth, take any event and ask different people what they saw, it will be different to a degree according to their perspective.
If even believers have such a hard time making heads or tails of the Bible, imagine how hard it is for the unbeliever!