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Questions on Ivermectin and Lice - Page 3

post #21 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by MargretClare View Post
 

Thanks for the responses. I haven't been on in a few days. I got everybody dusted but I'll use the permethrin spray for the follow up. What are some preferred brands? I had a hard time dusting the peafowl because of how tight their feathers are.

 

Some of the chickens had it really bad and were covered in eggs and bugs but others I couldn't find a single bug or egg on them. And these are birds that share a roost and sleep really close together. Any idea what that's about? Do some birds just taste better? I didn't actually see any on the peafowl but I found a few bugs on some of the turkeys. Of course I treat everybody just to be safe and they're staying locked up until the neighbors treat their birds too.

 

I got a concentrated permethrin from the feed store. It has mix instructions for spraying poultry, but you will have to calculate the tiny amount for a spray bottle because the instructions are designed for large commercial poultry farms. I mix it into a spray bottle I have set aside specifically for spraying chickens. (I got my spray bottle from the feed store but you could use a good plant mister. Just mark it so you don't accidentally use it on plants.)  

 

It is easier if you spray the birds at night on their roosts. Don't spray on the top of their feathers. You need to get the spray down to the skin. While the birds are roosting, I pick up their tails and spray under the fluff under the vents. (You don't want to spray directly on the vent.) I also spray under each wing, and I move the feathers aside to get a couple of other squirts onto their sides near the tail.

 

When the infestation is really bad I will dip the chickens. For dipping I halve the concentration recommended because they get more liquid on them when dipped and you can over-dose them. Mix the dip with warm (not hot) water in a five gallon bucket, or whatever is large enough to dunk your bird with room to spare. Hold the bird by the head and the thighs and dunk, keeping the head OUT of the dip. Swish them around a little so the water gets down to the skin. Let them drain off but don't rinse them. Make sure they have a warm place to dry off. (I only dip them on warm days, preferably in the high 70's or above.) Dipping is a drastic procedure. Once I got the infestation under control I have not had to do it again. But dipping did get the bad infestation under control. Now the occasional spray treatment is all I need to do.

 

I also switched their feed to Nutrena's "Feather Fixer." That has helped.

 

Roosters tend to get lice and mites before the hens do. And some birds are more prone to the bugs than others. It is not unusual to have a couple of birds in a coop with bugs, and no significant bug load on the other birds. One of my poultry mentors told me roosters have a slightly lower body temperature than the hens, so the bugs will attack the roosters first.

 

Avoid eating the eggs for a couple of weeks after spraying the birds with permethrin. And don't spray chickens you plan to eat in the next few months.

 

Never had peafowl or turkeys so I don't know how they react to sprays. Personally I avoid Ivermectin because I eat my chickens and Ivermectin scares me even more than Permethrin does.

 

Can't recommend Feather Fixer enough. It has not stopped the bugs completely, but I haven't had a major infestation since I started using it.

 

Good luck.

post #22 of 39

Just to note and for your considerations: I use Ivermectin and permethrin (and other like drugs and insecticides) around the house and quite often and for years.

 

Ivermectin is used in treatments for humans, dogs, and most other livestock including birds. It can be topical, injected or ingested, but you don't have to take my word for it if you don't want to. It treats a variety of mites, mange mites, scabies and parasites/heart worms...etc  Not to say I or my animals have such, its just a few of the applications.

http://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/dermatologic-disorders/parasitic-skin-infections/scabies#v965245

 

Permethrin- same thing, but not ingested/ NOT to be taken internally. it is a topical spray or dust that is used for humans, yards or as a topical on humans, animals, fowl etc. you will find it in tick sprays (repell, off, and other insect repellents) , concentrates for livestock and it use to be the dog topical ointment. Happy Jack Flea Dip for dogs sill uses it. It originally came from the mum plant and is sometimes synthesized now days.

 

The point is, the two active ingredients noted are pretty common ingredient names and should not be dismissed simply because the label disclaims an animal or human...that is just a marketing angle so they can charge more and a CYA disclaimer to save from lawsuits.

 

However, I will say that the amounts of dosages are different for specific animals and humans,  so the solution needs to be researched as for what dosage is acceptable for the lively creature.
Personally, my dogs get 1 to 2 cc of Ivermectin orally and monthly. but they were tested before I started the monthly doses. Permetrin, I mix it from the concentrate and use it on them as neeeded and montly as well. The quail and phesant pens get a monthly spray but never around the food and water area.

 

Many of the worming and mite drugs are universally used for birds, dogs, live stock are the same medications used to teat humans

pyrantel pamoate, praziquantel, Ivermetin, etc, and yes I have taken these as well, (as precautions).

 

So researching the drug and learning about them can save quite a lot on doctor and vet bills.

 

Please, this is just information for your considerations and thoughts. Use your own judgment and common senses....but note there is a internet full of OFFICIAL medically documented information from petmd, webMd, merck manual pro..medical resources that will confirm what I have said.


Edited by BobDBirdDog - 2/20/17 at 11:22am

Birds will be birds!

 

Chinese Ring Necks, Golden Pheasants, N-Bob White, pot luck Coturnix

Llewellin English Setters

Reply

Birds will be birds!

 

Chinese Ring Necks, Golden Pheasants, N-Bob White, pot luck Coturnix

Llewellin English Setters

Reply
post #23 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by MargretClare View Post

I was talking about the hen turkeys. But I've never been good at estimating measurements either.

Do you think I should try and use the permethrin spray on the archangel pigeon too? I didn't think he could get poultry lice but now I'm wondering.
The wiki page I just looked at says mature BR hens weigh 8.2 kg (18 pounds) and toms weigh 15 kg (33 pounds). IMO, I think it is safe to give your hens 0.8 ml and the toms can have 1.5 ml. To the best of my knowledge, permethrin spray and dust can be used on pigeons, as can ivermectin. Pour on ivermectin would be about 0.04 ml per pigeon, which is about two drops from a 1 ml syringe.
post #24 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobDBirdDog View Post
 

Just to note and for your considerations: I use Ivermectin and permethrin (and other like drugs and insecticides) around the house and quite often and for years.

 

Ivermectin is used in treatments for humans, dogs, and most other livestock including birds. It can be topical, injected or ingested, but you don't have to take my word for it if you don't want to. It treats a variety of mites, mange mites, scabies and parasites/heart worms...etc  Not to say I or my animals have such, its just a few of the applications.

http://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/dermatologic-disorders/parasitic-skin-infections/scabies#v965245

 

Permethrin- same thing, but not ingested/ NOT to be taken internally. it is a topical spray or dust that is used for humans, yards or as a topical on humans, animals, fowl etc. you will find it in tick sprays (repell, off, and other insect repellents) , concentrates for livestock and it use to be the dog topical ointment. Happy Jack Flea Dip for dogs sill uses it. It originally came from the mum plant and is sometimes synthesized now days.

 

The point is, the two active ingredients noted are pretty common ingredient names and should not be dismissed simply because the label disclaims an animal or human...that is just a marketing angle so they can charge more and a CYA disclaimer to save from lawsuits.

 

However, I will say that the amounts of dosages are different for specific animals and humans,  so the solution needs to be researched as for what dosage is acceptable for the lively creature.
Personally, my dogs get 1 to 2 cc of Ivermectin orally and monthly. but they were tested before I started the monthly doses. Permetrin, I mix it from the concentrate and use it on them as neeeded and montly as well. The quail and phesant pens get a monthly spray but never around the food and water area.

 

Many of the worming and mite drugs are universally used for birds, dogs, live stock are the same medications used to teat humans

pyrantel pamoate, praziquantel, Ivermetin, etc, and yes I have taken these as well, (as precautions).

 

So researching the drug and learning about them can save quite a lot on doctor and vet bills.

 

Please, this is just information for your considerations and thoughts. Use your own judgment and common senses....but note there is a internet full of OFFICIAL medically documented information from petmd, webMd, merck manual pro..medical resources that will confirm what I have said.

I'm guessing this ivermectin is the 1% injectable, not the 0.5% pour on?

 

Edited to fix typo!


Edited by casportpony - 2/23/17 at 9:50am
post #25 of 39

The permethin spray from Tractor Supply is  a 10% concentrate, and the amount approved for use in poultry is 5 ml per quart. It can be used *on* birds, and in their coop. Zero day egg withdrawal.


Edited by casportpony - 2/20/17 at 12:03pm
post #26 of 39
Thread Starter 
My tom is a young bourbon red but my hens are different breeds and ages. My tom is 19lbs. My largest hen is 12lbs and my smallest hen is 8lbs. I can do the math and figure out dosages now, I think.

I really don't know if I could even catch the pigeon. He showed up as a stray almost a year ago and refuses to leave. He has no leg band and I could never find the owner. I even put up a post in the pigeon section of this site trying to find pigeon keepers in the area.
post #27 of 39

19 pounds

19 / 2.2 x 0.5 / 5 = 0.86 ml

 

12 pounds

12 / 2.2 x 0.5 / 5 = 0.55 ml

 

8 pounds

8 / 2.2 x 0.5 / 5 = 0.36 ml

 

Pigeon - I guessed that the average pigeon weighs about 400 grams, so math for it looks like this:

0.4 kg (400 grams) x 0.5 / 5  = 0.04 ml

 

 

Okay to round up on all.

 

Math is based on a dose of 0.5 mg/kg, and that the pour on is 5 mg/ml. If using the injectable the amounts will be different.

 

Weight of bird in pounds, divide by 2.2 to get weight in kg, times the dose in mg per kg, divide by the number of mg in one ml = number of ml to use.

post #28 of 39
Thread Starter 
Thank you so much! How long will a dose of the pour-on last and be effective? And also, can I use the pour-on for the ducks? I'm worried the permethrin will just wash off in their pool. Sorry for all the questions. I just want to be sure of what I'm doing.
post #29 of 39
@Casportpony, post #19 needs fixed. I use appox. 0.45 per Bird not pound.
NPIP # KS-412

Black Copper Marans, Easter Eggers, Mutts, ducks, and PEAFOWL!!!  India Blue, IB White Eye, IB Pied WE split Cameo, IB Silver Pied, IBBS, IBBS split Cameo, IBBS Pied, IBBS WE, Cameo, CBS (Oaten), Cameo Pied, CPWE, CSP, and Purple Black Shoulder. African Gray Parrots, a bunch of those dang guineas.  Oh, and honeybees, around 200 hives.  And two Great Pyrenees puppies.

Reply
NPIP # KS-412

Black Copper Marans, Easter Eggers, Mutts, ducks, and PEAFOWL!!!  India Blue, IB White Eye, IB Pied WE split Cameo, IB Silver Pied, IBBS, IBBS split Cameo, IBBS Pied, IBBS WE, Cameo, CBS (Oaten), Cameo Pied, CPWE, CSP, and Purple Black Shoulder. African Gray Parrots, a bunch of those dang guineas.  Oh, and honeybees, around 200 hives.  And two Great Pyrenees puppies.

Reply
post #30 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by MargretClare View Post

Thank you so much! How long will a dose of the pour-on last and be effective? And also, can I use the pour-on for the ducks? I'm worried the permethrin will just wash off in their pool. Sorry for all the questions. I just want to be sure of what I'm doing.

I'm not sure how long it will last, KsKingBee might have a better idea. I know when I give the injectable or paste orally it lasts for a long time.

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