Rhode Island Red Strains

This is one of the best poultry breeding books I have ever read. said:

I have two strains of RIR in seperate pens. One is a hatchery stock backcrossed 2 generations. The other is hatchery stock. This far they both are very productive as far as egg laying goes. What do I get out of crossing the two strains and then selecting for breeders? would i be better off picking one strain and selectively line breeding them? I have heard one opinion that crossing strains is a waste of time. Advice from experienced breeders please?

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Not experienced with RIR but experienced in strain founding.
Buy the best dark red Mohawk RIR stud cock you can find and ship to your place.
Buy 2 in case one dies along the way.
Then take your 2 best hens.
make two pens and breed each to the Mohawk
.( F1 offspring 1/2 hatchery/1/2 Mohawk)

Take the best daughters to the Mohawk
(F2 offspring 1/4 hatchery -3/4 Mohawk)

and the best granddaughters to him .
(F3 offspring- 1/8 hatchery-7/8 Mohawk)
Do this in each pen.
When you get to this point your current generation in each pen will be 7/8 Mohawk.
Now take the best siblings each pen from the F3 generation and breed the opposite pens together.
By this time you will know how your gene pool throws and inherits virtues and faults and be able to decide where you want to go from there.
Best,
Karen

SunnySideUpGUAM said:

I have two strains of RIR in seperate pens. One is a hatchery stock backcrossed 2 generations. The other is hatchery stock. This far they both are very productive as far as egg laying goes. What do I get out of crossing the two strains and then selecting for breeders? would i be better off picking one strain and selectively line breeding them? I have heard one opinion that crossing strains is a waste of time. Advice from experienced breeders please?

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I started breeding my hatchery flock for egg production too and hatched our first chicks from them last December. Like the other poster said, I wouldn't sweat crossing since you're not trying to fix type, plumage, etc., that's only necessary when you're trying to fix certain traits and keep them in your line. I'm very new to breeding and I'm working with SOP birds that I keep separate from my hatchery layers. I read a lot of old books on breeding for production and one of the best was The Call of the Hen. A lot of the information in the book is summarized in one of the Livestock Conservancy's papers on selecting for production (https://livestockconservancy.org/images/uploads/docs/ALBCchicken_assessment-2.pdf). Basically you'll want to measure your birds' pelvic spread, keel to pelvis, capacity, etc., and select breeders based on your evaluations - it's all outlined in the paper.

What do you mean by backcrossed for two generations? What was the source of the two strains you are starting with? You mention your interest is maintaining or improving egg production. What is your current egg production? How are you able to identify which egg comes from which hen? You could pick the more productive individuals from each strain to start, but once you start, you will want to stay within your strain. You will want to breed your most productive hens to brothers of your most productive hens.

Why would closed line breeding only be used for exhibition qualities? It is useful in selecting any quantitative trait. Crossing of strains may bump egg production initially, but might put you ack to step one in later generations.

I am not sure a Mohawk RIR would necessarily increase egg production, especially since the poster is starting with a productive strain. Why introduce an exhibition strain?

Again, the poster is trying to fix a certain trait, egg production. I notice a lot of people here only post about books and articles from 1930 and before. Much has been learned since then. The parameters mentioned only tell you if a female is in lay. To determine your most productive layers, they have to be caged separately, or you have to use trapnests. You have to record which eggs come from which individuals over time (a year or so, as egg production changes over a production cycle), and then select your best layers to produce your next generation. Like I said earlier, keep full brothers to each female, and use the brothers of your top layers, and cull the rest.

ok here I go, keep in mind im a newb go easy on me im only looking for guidance. What I mean by backcrossed two generations is that batch is produced from a Rooster mated to his daughters then their daughters. Both strains are from two different hatcheries. On average hens from both pens lay 5-7 eggs/week so I would like to maintain OR improve, I know it dont get too much better than 5-7eggs/week. I dont use trap nests, but I try to take good egg data daily. As far as breeding goes Im not too selective at this point since both flocks are small. Im gonna keep them separate for now until both flocks are bigger. I figure im getting eggs from the most productive hens since they are the hens laying most every day.

Based on the info i get here and advise from other local farmers I may mix the strains, or keep them separate until i need to add one new roo in for diversity and then backcross after that. I may even try to breed one strain for egg production and another for carcass qualities.