New York State Six Chicken Law?

@SundownWaterfowl
Thanks!

Wonderful to know that Article 15A says one thing and article 354 says another...

Does that mean I live in nys, that I can have backyard chickens and be ok, i hope so.

Quote:
Check your town codes, they have the authority over what you can have, not the state

Quote:
Check your town codes, they have the authority over what you can have, not the state

It depends strictly on the wording of the grants of power that the state makes. It is possible that the state has reserved certain powers to itself and therefore the minor jurisdictions do not have any say at all in certain matters.

The normal situation (if there is such a thing) would be for the state to say it is legal to own and raise poultry subject to the zoning laws, and then the right to declare zones, permitted uses in the zones, and where the zones are, is given to the local jurisdiction (this is the effectively the case in Maine). This stops the various counties from being in the loop.

Note: The above does not speak to private contracts which are bounded by the borders of the paper they are written on and yes, you sure as heck can sign away your rights.

Go to http://www.generalcode.com/codification/ecode/library.

It lists most towns zoning laws. If your town isn't listed, I highly suggest you go to them and ask.

theFox said:

It depends strictly on the wording of the grants of power that the state makes. It is possible that the state has reserved certain powers to itself and therefore the minor jurisdictions do not have any say at all in certain matters.

The normal situation (if there is such a thing) would be for the state to say it is legal to own and raise poultry subject to the zoning laws, and then the right to declare zones, permitted uses in the zones, and where the zones are, is given to the local jurisdiction (this is the effectively the case in Maine). This stops the various counties from being in the loop.

Note: The above does not speak to private contracts which are bounded by the borders of the paper they are written on and yes, you sure as heck can sign away your rights.

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What kind of law are you talking about? A law (ordinance, statute, regulation etc.) can only be enforced if a court has jurisdiction. A unenforceable law is what? Nothing... A plaintiff or prosecutor has to file a valid (civil or criminal) cause of action before a court can except the case. People are naive in thinking all laws are valid or that what a politician says or writes mean something..Courts have rules they have to go by. That is the distinction between a democratic republic and a dictatorial form of government.

I wrote this on another thread but it applies here. It was in response to the myth of "legitimate legal rules"

First lets address innocents. If I have no chickens, can I be legally charged with a crime or civil action over having chickens? If not, the question becomes why? The legal answer is corpus delecti which means in simple form evidence. No evidence of a crime or civil violation, no case can be brought before a court (jurisdiction).

In a criminal or civil case, the plaintiff (District attorney / private party) has to meet certain requirements (which are also known as elements) that a wrong doing occurred. These are not my rules, they are the legal system rules. In other words, just because a DA, a private person, state, city. or federal government, states that a wrong doing occurred, there has to be facts and evidence to support the claim. Are you with me so far?

Lets discuss the element...again these are not my rules they are the legal systems...

From wiki: an element of a crime (or element of an offense) is one of a set of facts that must all be proven to convict a defendant of a crime. Before a court finds a defendant guilty of a criminal offense, the prosecution must present evidence that, even when opposed by any evidence the defense may choose to present, is credible and sufficient to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant committed each element of the particular crime charged.


From wiki: To commit a crime there are elements that need to occur

1) Mens rea ...Mens Rea refers to the crime's mental elements of the defendant's intent. This is a necessary element—that is, the criminal act must be voluntary or purposeful.

2) Actus reus. That is, a criminal act or an unlawful omission of an act, must have occurred. A person cannot be punished for thinking criminal thoughts.

3) Concurrence: In general, mens rea and actus reus must occur at the same time—that is, the criminal intent must precede or coexist with the criminal act, or in some way activate the act. The necessary mens rea may not continually be present until the forbidden act is committed, as long as it activated the conduct that produced the criminal act. However, for criminal liability to occur, there must be either overt and voluntary action or a failure to act when physically able as required by statute or law.

4) Causation Many crimes include an element that actual harm must occur—in other words, causation must be proved. For example, homicide requires a killing, aggravated battery requires serious bodily injury and without those respective outcomes, those respective crimes would not be committed. A causal relationship between conduct and result is demonstrated if the act would not have happened without direct participation of the offender.[5] Causation is complex to prove. The act may be a "necessary but not sufficient" cause of the criminal harm. Intervening events may have occurred in between the act and the result. Therefore, the cause of the act and the forbidden result must be "proximate", or near in time.[1]

Corpus delecti is required in both criminal and civil courts with different elements. In essence Corpus delecti of crimes refers to a palpable harm. In civil, where there is no violation of an established right there can be no wrong.

For a valid civil cause of action the elements are;

1) a violation of a legal right
2) damage or injury
3) redress-ability by the court.

Most chicken violations are civil in nature and are considered infractions. So consider the above definitions and if you are accused of being a chicken ordinance violator ask yourself the following...Mens rea; did you have intent ? Actus reus; did you commit a criminal act? Concurrence; did you intend and then commit a criminal act? Causation; did you actually harm? Civil: did you violate a legal right? did you injure or damage?

Now rethink your logic of "legitimate legal "rules," and compare it to the elements of a valid cause of action. The "legitimate legal rules" are not enforceable in a court unless they meet the criminal or civil "elements".

A city, state, federal government can write anything they want and try and enforce it.They can even get away with it as the courts are not the defendants advocate....Politicians can mandate that everyone in the state must where pink hats on Tuesday but a crime or civil violation does not occur unless the elements exist. If these elements do not exist, the court has no jurisdiction to hear the case and the plaintiff has no standing to bring suit. Unless a person challenges (properly) and forces the plaintiff during discovery to present corpus delecti, the courts will presume the evidence and facts exits and will continue with the hearing.

Unfortunately, they don't teach this in public schools and they never will. The legal system extorts billions of dollars annually from the ignorant..And no, a defense attorney isn't there to help. He / she is part of that multi billion dollar a year industry. In a court room, you are at a disadvantage because the rules of the court are convoluted and confusing which means regardless of the elements, facts, and evidence you can still lose on procedural grounds.

Now, lets look at a HOA...Can they enforce there rules? Absolutely...Why? they have a written agreement that was signed by the homeowner. That is evidence...

Does anyone know if this 6 min rule applies to ducks as well? I was hoping to get one female duckling - the poultry hatchery in NY is closed today and I'm anxious to know.
Thanks

From what I can tell, the law applies to any "fowl". Ducklings are expressly listed as are chicks but the law also says "or other fowl". I would guess this means it also applies to goslings which is ridiculous given the price of goslings (even the least expensive ones are at least $15). I don't see many people buying them on a whim, nor do I see many people wanting to purchase six or more goslings. Whatever the real reasons for the law may be (perhaps a desire to discourage non-farmers from raising their own flocks at all?), it really should be changed to a lower minimum (such as three or four). In our area, several towns only allow five chickens which would tend to encourage the killing or "releasing" of the "extra" bird if it doesn't conveniently die on its own and can't be rehomed. If you lose one or two birds, you must purchase six to replace them if you can't get older birds to replace them. Finding older replacement birds can be well nigh impossible if you're trying to keep a pure line of a less common breed. If you want two different breeds that aren't available for sale at the same time or place, you have to purchase at least twelve birds (six each time you purchase them). Rarer breeds which tend to be harder to find and more expensive when found would definitely benefit from a lower minimum as more people would be inclined to purchase them. People who don't have the money or space for (or need of) larger flocks would also benefit.

MissCluck said:

Thanks! I did find a local breeder near the Town of Macedon that is willing to work with me. They also explained the age factor.

That's good news.

I'm in the Finger Lakes Region and am hoping to get Buff Orps or Wyandottes.

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I know this is an old post, but in case you're still watching it, where is your breeder in Macedon? And did you like them? I love on the west side in Rochester, and just lost some chickens: hoping to replenish my flock

Thank you!