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DIY HUMANE way to Kill Slaughter Chicken (Stun-kill, Gas) - Page 52

post #511 of 714

How many chickens has this "poultry expert" killed, exactly?  Do they raise and kill their own?  How many per year do they process?  What designates one as a "poultry expert"?   Just curious..... 

post #512 of 714

Not sure all of the answers to your questions about the specialist.  I would imagine that he would not be able to sit in a position of being their poultry expert and working with farms if he didn't have the appropriate experience.  I've worked in the animal welfare industry and veterinary medicine for a long time.  The folks that I've interacted with over at Animal Welfare Approved have all been quite knowledgeable and are really trying to make a difference in the farming industry.  They really are a group of good folks.  Contact them, they're real nice!

 

Each method of dispatching animals has pros and cons. However, there seems to be preliminary research showing that CAK is effective and humane.  Building the stun box and obtaining the tank of the gas mixture is such a small expense, that it works well for our farm.  (It may not be right for everyone)

 

I love Temple Grandin for all matters livestock.  I've seen her talk and I've met her.  She has done a lot for improving conditions of our food animals.  She even has a paper on it: http://www.grandin.com/gas.stunning.poultry.eval.html

 

There is an abstract that I found that indicates that gas stunning methods actually improve the meat quality. http://ps.fass.org/content/78/2/287.full.pdf

 

I've read articles in the Journal of Applied Poultry Research that indicate that C02 with O2 is actually humane.  However, more recent research is apparently showing that adding nitrogen or argon causes even less distress in the birds.  The AVMA has indicated that CAK is acceptable, and so have several of the more notable "humane" organizations in the US.

post #513 of 714

Yes, that's right. The distress you feel when you hold your breath is due to increasing levels of carbon dioxide. There are carbon dioxide sensors in your blood vessels which report this. By contrast, low levels of oxygen don't create this distress response. For this reason, you feel no distress if you breath pure nitrogen. In fact, you feel euphoria first, then you pass out, then you die. It's painless and non-toxic (since nitrogen is basically inert). Animals also react in this way: I've seen videos showing that pigs will readily stick their snout into a nitrogen-filled container to retrieve food. It makes them stagger about but they are keen to get their snout back in there once they recover.

 

Basically, other than the cost and inconvenience, there is no reason not to slaughter using an inert gas: it's pretty quick, humane, and it's non-toxic.

post #514 of 714
I don't know. PETA is supposed to be all for "humane" as well and yet they do things that can only be described as Ghastly.

We all have our opinions though and are welcome to them. And we all have one. For myself, this is still overthinking the process to the extreme. If one does not want to eat an animal that has been harmed or suffered in any way, then don't eat an animal. They have to die first.

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post #515 of 714

It has never gotten "better the next time" for me. I prefer an axe with my husband at the other end. I have on occasion killed birds, mice, etc by breaking their necks....birds I have only done this to if I feel they are suffering. I don't look them in the eyes, I turn my head as it hurts me but it has to be done. ( I recently had to kill 2 chicks this way as I knew there was no hope of recovery for them)...mice, I can do any ole' time! If hubby is not here to do it,  I will. I will not get close to the ones that are to go in the freezer, I will to those I plan to keep for eggs and chicks.

Deb

post #516 of 714
Quote:
Originally Posted by galanie View Post

I don't know. PETA is supposed to be all for "humane" as well and yet they do things that can only be described as Ghastly.
We all have our opinions though and are welcome to them. And we all have one. For myself, this is still overthinking the process to the extreme. If one does not want to eat an animal that has been harmed or suffered in any way, then don't eat an animal. They have to die first.

 

I agree.  Whatever method or science behind the method that states they "just go to sleep" doesn't take into account that there are many bodily changes that happen before and during that "going to sleep".  Rarely is there ever a way to die that doesn't involve bodily stress, whether you can see it or not see it from the outside. 

 

It all comes down to folks trying to feel better about killing an animal.  Either you have the resolve to do it or you do not.  If you have to invent creative ways to try and make it the most humane, more humane than anyone else is currently using, etc., it is likely you lack the resolve to do it when it is necessary anyway. 

 

It sounds very much like many people are extremely, emotionally traumatized by having to put down a small animal and they really need to ask themselves, "Is this really worth it?"  Is it worth it to even keep such animals if you are going to go through all this agonizing soul searching, desperate chemical concoctions and all the accompanying angst that goes along with it just to keep chickens in your back yard?  The question then becomes not "Can I do this in a more humane way?" but "Should I be even involved in this process at all because I am causing myself undue stress and anxiety?"

post #517 of 714

(disclaimer.. I did not read all 52 pages, but I will later)

 

Another hobby of mine is breeding snakes. We have over 100 ball pythons currently in our snake room. We started off with a CO2 chamber, and had gotten pretty skilled at using just enough for the rats to curl up with each other and pass out, showing no (outward) signs of distress, before then cranking up the CO2 to making sure they were gone. That was when we had 5 snakes. Now that we have as many as we do, we also have somewhere around 100 breeder rats to provide food for everybody. It is no longer convenient to humanely kill each and every one, or even in groups of 5 in the CO2 chamber. I have also kept rats as pets in the past, and genuinely appreciate many animals for their different and unique qualities. As bad as it sounds that convenience overtakes our procedures, it's just the way it is. While my boyfriend laughs when the rats die, I quietly thank them for being there to provide for another animal. It may sound harsh but I've gotten good at seperating myself from them as pets vs. food (for snakes). I still do everything I can to ensure they die quickly, in order to reduce suffering.

 

Hang in there, there is a point!

 

While I cried my heart out because I had to kill my first chicken due to pity from her wounds after a dog attack, I assume once I start raising the occassional duck and chicken for meat, my ability to harvest them for meat will follow the same path as that of the rats - convenience. I would like to have them quietly pass out, unaware, from a gas, but I think for most people, who have more than just the occassional/once in a while chicken that needs to be slaughtered, it just isn't cost or time efficient. I don't think there is anything wrong with this. If the animal is treated with respect, and a person does not go out of their way to make the animal suffer, and they do what is within reason to humanely dispatch the animal, then I am not one to judge. I think it is very helpful to think that, same as the rats I raise for my snake, my chickens will be raised humanely, will lead a full chicken life, and will get more out of their time than billions of other chickens in the meat industry around the world.

post #518 of 714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anatopism View Post

(disclaimer.. I did not read all 52 pages, but I will later)

Another hobby of mine is breeding snakes. We have over 100 ball pythons currently in our snake room. We started off with a CO2 chamber, and had gotten pretty skilled at using just enough for the rats to curl up with each other and pass out, showing no (outward) signs of distress, before then cranking up the CO2 to making sure they were gone. That was when we had 5 snakes. Now that we have as many as we do, we also have somewhere around 100 breeder rats to provide food for everybody. It is no longer convenient to humanely kill each and every one, or even in groups of 5 in the CO2 chamber. I have also kept rats as pets in the past, and genuinely appreciate many animals for their different and unique qualities. As bad as it sounds that convenience overtakes our procedures, it's just the way it is. While my boyfriend laughs when the rats die, I quietly thank them for being there to provide for another animal. It may sound harsh but I've gotten good at seperating myself from them as pets vs. food (for snakes). I still do everything I can to ensure they die quickly, in order to reduce suffering.

Hang in there, there is a point!

While I cried my heart out because I had to kill my first chicken due to pity from her wounds after a dog attack, I assume once I start raising the occassional duck and chicken for meat, my ability to harvest them for meat will follow the same path as that of the rats - convenience. I would like to have them quietly pass out, unaware, from a gas, but I think for most people, who have more than just the occassional/once in a while chicken that needs to be slaughtered, it just isn't cost or time efficient. I don't think there is anything wrong with this. If the animal is treated with respect, and a person does not go out of their way to make the animal suffer, and they do what is within reason to humanely dispatch the animal, then I am not one to judge. I think it is very helpful to think that, same as the rats I raise for my snake, my chickens will be raised humanely, will lead a full chicken life, and will get more out of their time than billions of other chickens in the meat industry around the world.

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Lay down with dogs and you get up with fleas.


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Lay down with dogs and you get up with fleas.


Love those Orps!

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post #519 of 714

Adding some info on the CO2 method... I have no idea how humane it is for chickens. My experience is only on small mammals after a certain age, as the younger they are, the more resistant they are to this type of euthanasia. With very young rodents, cervical discolation is generally accepted as a much more humane method. I assume the method is the same, perhaps naively, but I don't know if chickens are more resistant, as baby rats might be, due to how much oxygen they need or don't need to function regularly. CO2 is widely accepted as a humane form of euthanasia for many animals (and in Merck Veterinary Manual), but ONLY if done properly. Dry ice can be used, but is very difficult to correctly regulate. I've always used a paint-ball canister filled with Co2 and an adjustable valve to control how much CO2 is pumped into the chamber. The end of exit tubing is placed in a very thin bag, or latex glove, or glass of water, so that you can visually see the amount of air getting pushed out. There are actual meters that will tell you the amount, and that are more accurate, but my methods have worked well for me.

 

Inhumane: pumping too much CO2 too quickly, causing the animal to be aware that it is suffocating, resulting in panic.

 

Humane: think about mountain climbers gradually adjusting to less and less oxygen as they climb. The method should be similar. You don't just pump the chamber full of CO2, flushing all O2 out. Rather, you very very gradually increase the CO2 in a chamber that is large enough for the animal to comfortably stand/sit/turn around, and only increase the flow of CO2 after the animal starts to "settle in". Different animals can take longer, but you should never see the animal starting to panic, or gasp for air, or flail in the tub. IDEALLY: you have an animal that settles in to the ground in a natural resting position (I suppose for chickens this may be a bird who has intentionally tucked its head into its feathers), and who closes its eyes (though sometimes they don't) and whose breathing becomes perhaps deeper, but not strained. Once the animal appears to be unconscious,  you let the CO2 run for a few minutes longer, before finally increasing the valve to the point where the chamber is 100% CO2. You then leave the chamber at this point for several more moments until there is no possibility that the animal may come back alive.

 

The last step is the one that i am least sure of as far as CO2's application for chickens. I know how long rats/mice at different ages take before they are guaranteed to be deceased. Knowing how differently birds (and reptiles) can metabolize chemicals or survive oxygen deficiency, I have NO idea when it is 'safe' to remove the bird from the chamber. CO2 for many reptiles, and snakes specifically, can result in a snake that appears dead for 2 days, even to a professional, but later 'wakes up' and recovers showing no adverse symptoms. I would hate for somebody to try the CO2 method as an effort to humanely euthanize/cull/harvest their chicken, only to find out this method is much more difficult than it is for other species, or that it is in fact less humane than other seemingly more brutal methods, due to the possibility for human error.

post #520 of 714

Yup, I agree. The people whom it bothers so much should just get someone else to do it and take off and go shopping for the day or somthing lol! Me, it doesn`t bother me. Me and the husband hunt alot and I don`t know how many grouse I`ve shot over the years  but last year I took a caribou and the year before I got my first moose, clean shots with no suffering. Both of us are animal lovers. We got 3 dogs 2 horses one cat and soon 42 chickens, 12 of which will be layers.big_smile.png


Edited by Yukonchick - 5/21/12 at 8:09pm
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