Brahma Thread - Page 372

We're new to chickens, but we've had experience with pure-bred French Brittany's.  My husband researched breeders, and ordered a French Brittany from France.  The dog cost hundreds, plus air fare fees.  The breeder knew the distance would lessen the ability for the buyer to go after them if they didn't ship a healthy dog.  The breeder sent him a puppy with hip displasia.  The puppy was so sick, couldn't walk and had to be put down.  My husband lost out and was heartbroken.  The next dog he bought from a local breeder - he had to drive quite a few hours to get there, but at least he was able to inspect the puppy and the breeder.

Personally, I would never pay that much for a chicken.  Too many things can go wrong.  But, if I were to buy an expensive chicken, I would only buy locally.  That's a lot of money to pay for a bird that will become stressed in transportation.

As usual, Gary is so much better at articulating what I am trying to say. You would be better off time and money wise, buying good foundation stock. Mark Petersen and the Aldriches are closer. Like Gary said lots of big shows in Ohio. You can meet breeders there and set up buying a bird or two.

As to breeding up quality birds. I can't even imagine how many years that would take from hatchery birds?? I can't say its impossible. The time and expense would make a 250 investment look microscopic. Another nugget of wisdom Gary threw out is the fact that its not easy maintaining a quality show line. Columbian patterned birds can't be bred best to best to maintain quality. It takes serious thought and knowledge. You WILL gain that with experience.

I was not trying to knock anyone here. Most here usually are better at answering questions like,"what size diaper should I get for my chicken?" Or "What breed and sex is my day old chick fromTSC?" Its just hard to wade through the bs, many answer questions they have NO idea what the answer really is. Gary knows what hes talking about, AND he has the ability to be more tactful than I. I appreciate candor and sometimes my responses may come across as rude. Honestly, not my intention.

Tim

Hi Tim -

I'm going to put my two cents in now with both feet.  Most of us are casual chicken owners.  I, myself, am just "playing around" at breeding.  While a lot of us merely want to learn about general upkeep and how to turn our livestock into pets, I take my hat off to people like you and Gary who REALLY know your stuff.  I have never shown a chicken and probably never will, but I have nevertheless absorbed (and appreciated) your wisdom and Gary's wisdom.  My girls/guys now have inverted "U" tails, and the vulture hocks are slowly disappearing from my breeding stock.  I now pay attention to brows, lacing, leg color, etc., because of what I have learned here.

I guess what I"m trying to say is please keep telling us what we need to know!  I don't find you rude at all.  I see you as a serious breeder who may get a little impatient with us "children" in the field of breeding.  Keep the pearls of wisdom coming - they are appreciated!

Tim do you have any contact info. for Mark Petersen? The Aldriches have not emailed me back so I can't say anything about whether or not they are even an option. I will be going to a swap in pierpont on Saturday. It kind of sounds weird but whatever. They said they will have garage sale stuff, baked goods, and pretty much every farm animal except turkeys. I will be bringing a chicken or two to sale and a few other things. I will look for any brahmas I can find. Just not getting my hopes high. I just really want a few quality light hens.

BTW Big Medicine I did go to the ohio national last year. This is where I was able to get my cockerel from Ron Yochum and my hens from Darlene Hobbs.

I would suggest be patient, go to more shows, meet and talk to the breeders. The Aldriches were at Columbus last year. The fact you are there in person indicates, to me at least, more of a commitment than firing off an email. If they do not have birds for sale at the time, like Tim said, try to work something out with them to hold some birds back for you to be delivered at next years show. If you are in this for the long haul, it will come around.

Again, breeders often advertise in the Poultry Press.

The odds of finding good Brahmas at most swaps are slim, so study, and know what a good one looks like, if you do happen apon some. Buying sub par stock only sets you back.

Just my opinion, and I will throw it out there one more time. I believe you will have much more success settling on one breeders line you like, and sticking with it. It took me a while to come around to this when the old timers first suggested this as well.

So basically you're saying I should just go to Ron Yochum or Darlene Hobbs and get a few more birds from them and just keep breeding from those lines? Plus I don't really know what method to use to go about breeding these birds. I want to use rotational line breeding. I was just curious what method you use to breed.

If that's whose birds you like the best.

Now sometimes flocks are fairly closely related, the Aldriches flock is strongly influenced by the late Bill Bowman's breeding. They actually eventually bought his flock after Bill passed on. Prior to that,at one time, Bill and Barb Piper had worked closely on their flocks.  Bill Mayers lights, I believe shared a lot of the same blood.  And I'm sure there are more that I'm not aware of.  These were not random outcrosses, a lot of thought and research went into these breeding programs. Ideally if you can stay in the same line, or a closely related line it will eliminate many of the variables that the breeders before you spent many years removing from these lines. 

If the years go by, and you feel your birds need a shot of new blood, I would stay in the family. Kind of a version of the rotational breeding you spoke of. 

Often what some people think is a result of problems from line breeding, say quality starts to fade, vigor,  is actually the result of their desicions as who they kept for breeders. I've heard stories of a non Brahma breeder who got a start with a trio of top birds from a well known breeder, and produced some show winners right off the start. After a few generations they were not quite what they had been. Then he got some "new" blood from the original breeder and did well for a while again. And this was the cycle that continued untill the old original breeder died. The newer breeders flock then deteriated to the point he got out of them altogether.  It was not close line breeding that was causing his problems but rather his lack of skill as a breeder. The "new" blood was the same exact closed flock he got his start from, all the "new" blood did was correct his poor breeding decisions. 

So again don't think starting with top quality stock is cheating somehow, you will earn your stripes, if you can keep them at, or near, the same level over time.

I need everyone's honest truth on my two month old buff brahma cockerel. Here he is. He weighs 2 pounds 8 ounces.

This picture is sort of blurry but notice the excessive feathering.

Too much black going down into his back.

Thank you big medicine that was very helpful information.