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Does any one use ivermectin in chickens ? - Page 45

post #441 of 455

More reading:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady of McCamley View Post
 

@casportpony

 

Yes, that's what I read too...Fenbendazole has shown some effectiveness against the most common tape, but there is some inconclusiveness. Vets tend to still prescribe it for that purpose as a matter of course, even though it is not conclusive.

 

I've read and heard good things and bad things about internal worms and Ivermectin, and I honestly think it depends upon the population you've got in your area. Literature clearly shows worms build resistance to drugs, and worms have shown ability to build resistance to Ivermectin. I think some areas which have had over treatment of one type of med, Ivermectin in particular, become resistant.

 

Therefore, I personally prefer rotating control meds because of the tendency of worms to develop resistance. What works today won't tomorrow...so rotating helps to reduce resistance build up. It then becomes a case of trial and error for the poultry owner, with the wisest course to administer then take fecal samples, but often that is time consuming and not often done....so what tends to happen is administration and visual observation with colloquially reported results. Rotation, and literature, can help when fecal samples are not desired.

 

LofMc

 

A recent study showing effectiveness of Ivermectin, if given in repeated dosages over 3 to 4 weeks (EDITED: oops...this particular study shows fecal samples were taken over a course of month after one treatment...I have read a different study that I've misplaced that showed efficacy improved with repeated doses...will look for that):

http://www.medwelljournals.com/fulltext/?doi=rjpscience.2011.41.44

http://www.aensiweb.com/old/aeb/2011/2002-2005.pdf (same article in pdf form)

 

Older study referenced showing Ivermectin effectiveness on several worm types in poultry:

https://books.google.com/books?id=8u7xCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA517&lpg=PA517&dq=effectiveness+of+ivermectin+on+helminths+in+poultry&source=bl&ots=KiN_zvrlit&sig=kPwPF3jk-ZGDiRJopN_Qsh9hvQI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiHjLuo_aXMAhWI3SYKHSAmDBIQ6AEIPTAE#v=onepage&q=effectiveness%20of%20ivermectin%20on%20helminths%20in%20poultry&f=false

 

EDITED TO ADD: this study found again while looking for the study that I know showed 2 control groups and that efficacy of Ivermectin improved over repeated dosages...will continue to look for that one...possible I've confused it with the standard usage of 3 treatments for mites/lice with Ivermectin:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2267731

 

A study done on pigeons showing efficacy of Ivermectin on nematodes

http://thejaps.org.pk/docs/16_1-2_2006/Basit.pdf

 

A study in Bangladesh showing efficacy of Ivermectin on nematodes for ducks:

http://eurasianjvetsci.org/pdf/pdf_EJVS_976.pdf

 

The Literature:

 

Merck's Veterinary Manual lists Ivermectin as effective (though not currently approved "on label")

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/poultry/helminthiasis/overview_of_helminthiasis_in_poultry.html 

 

A typical study which shows the non-satisfactory results of Ivermectin (note it was only one treatment...the positive study showed that 3 to 4 treatments were necessary for eradication)

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1439-0450.1989.tb00635.x/abstract

 

Another synopsis of studies showing the non-efficacy of ivermectin, fenbendazole and oxfendazole in poultry for helminths

http://www.reeis.usda.gov/web/crisprojectpages/0190565-development-and-control-of-parasitisms-established-in-arkansas-farm-animals.html

 

 

Since Ivermectin is cheap and easy to apply, it can be a good choice if your area (and more importantly flock) has not shown resistance.

 
post #442 of 455

More on 1% ivermectin

 

One drop of the 1% injectable = ~0.02 ml = 0.2 mg

 

Here is how I calculate how much to give:

Weigh of bird in pounds, divide by 2.2, times the mg/kg that I want to give, which lately is 1 mg/kg (most vets will suggest *much* less than that), divide by 10 = the amount to give.

 

Example of what I give a five pound bird @ 1mg/kg:

5 / 2.2 x 1 / 10 = 0.227 ml = 11 drops

 

These are the amounts that a vet would probably suggest. FWIW, a vet here on BYC uses 0.3 mg/kg on their birds

Example for a five pound bird @ 0 .2mg/kg:

5 / 2.2 x .2 / 10 = 0.045 ml = 2 or 3 drops

 

Example for a five pound bird @ 0 .3mg/kg:

5 / 2.2 x .3 / 10 = 0.068 ml = 3 or 4 drops

 

Example for a five pound bird @ 0 .4mg/kg:

5 / 2.2 x .4 / 10 = 0.09 ml = 4 or 5 drops

 

Example for a five pound bird @ 0 .5mg/kg:

5 / 2.2 x .5 / 10 = 0.11 ml = 5 or 6 drops

 

As always, please check my math. :D And if possible, consult with a vet on how much to give.

 

-Kathy


Edited by casportpony - 5/3/16 at 12:39pm
post #443 of 455
post #444 of 455
Wow is the only thing I can say to this!
post #445 of 455

Allegedly written by a vet:

Quote:
 I like the 1% injectable form because I can draw up exactly 0.1 ml and give it in the breast muscle or by mouth. I also like it because I know that the ivermectin is then getting into the bloodstream.

I am assuming that the amount they use is based on an average sized laying hen, but no way to know for sure.

 

I hope all of this info hasn't been too confusing, but if it is, please do post here or send me a PM if you have questions.:D

 

 

-Kathy


Edited by casportpony - 5/3/16 at 1:11pm
post #446 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by casportpony View Post
 

More reading:

 

Yes, that's what I read too...Fenbendazole has shown some effectiveness against the most common tape, but there is some inconclusiveness. Vets tend to still prescribe it for that purpose as a matter of course, even though it is not conclusive.

 

I've read and heard good things and bad things about internal worms and Ivermectin, and I honestly think it depends upon the population you've got in your area. Literature clearly shows worms build resistance to drugs, and worms have shown ability to build resistance to Ivermectin. I think some areas which have had over treatment of one type of med, Ivermectin in particular, become resistant.

 

Therefore, I personally prefer rotating control meds because of the tendency of worms to develop resistance. What works today won't tomorrow...so rotating helps to reduce resistance build up. It then becomes a case of trial and error for the poultry owner, with the wisest course to administer then take fecal samples, but often that is time consuming and not often done....so what tends to happen is administration and visual observation with colloquially reported results. Rotation, and literature, can help when fecal samples are not desired.

 

LofMc

 

A recent study showing effectiveness of Ivermectin, if given in repeated dosages over 3 to 4 weeks (EDITED: oops...this particular study shows fecal samples were taken over a course of month after one treatment...I have read a different study that I've misplaced that showed efficacy improved with repeated doses...will look for that):

http://www.medwelljournals.com/fulltext/?doi=rjpscience.2011.41.44

http://www.aensiweb.com/old/aeb/2011/2002-2005.pdf (same article in pdf form)

 

Older study referenced showing Ivermectin effectiveness on several worm types in poultry:

https://books.google.com/books?id=8u7xCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA517&lpg=PA517&dq=effectiveness+of+ivermectin+on+helminths+in+poultry&source=bl&ots=KiN_zvrlit&sig=kPwPF3jk-ZGDiRJopN_Qsh9hvQI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiHjLuo_aXMAhWI3SYKHSAmDBIQ6AEIPTAE#v=onepage&q=effectiveness%20of%20ivermectin%20on%20helminths%20in%20poultry&f=false

 

EDITED TO ADD: this study found again while looking for the study that I know showed 2 control groups and that efficacy of Ivermectin improved over repeated dosages...will continue to look for that one...possible I've confused it with the standard usage of 3 treatments for mites/lice with Ivermectin:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2267731

 

A study done on pigeons showing efficacy of Ivermectin on nematodes

http://thejaps.org.pk/docs/16_1-2_2006/Basit.pdf

 

A study in Bangladesh showing efficacy of Ivermectin on nematodes for ducks:

http://eurasianjvetsci.org/pdf/pdf_EJVS_976.pdf

 

The Literature:

 

Merck's Veterinary Manual lists Ivermectin as effective (though not currently approved "on label")

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/poultry/helminthiasis/overview_of_helminthiasis_in_poultry.html 

 

A typical study which shows the non-satisfactory results of Ivermectin (note it was only one treatment...the positive study showed that 3 to 4 treatments were necessary for eradication)

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1439-0450.1989.tb00635.x/abstract

 

Another synopsis of studies showing the non-efficacy of ivermectin, fenbendazole and oxfendazole in poultry for helminths

http://www.reeis.usda.gov/web/crisprojectpages/0190565-development-and-control-of-parasitisms-established-in-arkansas-farm-animals.html

 

 

Since Ivermectin is cheap and easy to apply, it can be a good choice if your area (and more importantly flock) has not shown resistance.

 

 

 

To follow up this quote from me, as I strive to always be accurate in anything I write on BYC (and it was driving me a little nuts why I couldn't seem to find what I was thinking of)

 

I've been looking for the study that concluded multiple Ivermectin treatments were most effective for internal worms in poultry..I think I forgot to bookmark that particular one :rolleyes: and will continue to look...but I figured out part of my confusion....the first study I quoted above from Medwell Journals (Mirhadil, et al) used one treatment of pour on Ivermectin on poultry to target Heterakis gallinarum ...but it also quoted ANOTHER study within it, Sharma, et al,  that used 2 Ivermectin (injectible) treatments on poultry (treated day 10 and then day 35) for A. Galli.

 

 

The Mirhadil, et al, study found 98% effectiveness after one treatment on cecal worms (Hetekarkis gallinarum), but efficacy rose to its highest 98% only after 28 days after pour on administered ("Efficacy rate of ivermectin pour-on was 59.14, 87.87, 97.65 and 99.57% in 1, 7, 21 and 28 days, respectively.")

http://www.medwelljournals.com/fulltext/?doi=rjpscience.2011.41.44

http://www.aensiweb.com/old/aeb/2011/2002-2005.pdf (same article in pdf form)

 

 

Sharma, et al, which targeted A. Galli (round worm) showed injectible Ivermectin to be 90 to 95% effective on adult worms (81% and 92% on eggs) after 2 doses administered on day 10 and day 35

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0304401790900143

 

 

My brain is still seeing another multiple treatment study that was favorable, and showed marked improvement after subsequent doses, and I'll continue to look for that.

 

Bottomline, though, as discussed in this thread, is that Ivermectin has conflicting results for internal worms.

 

But I've been taught that med rotation is important for worms so that they do not build up a resistance to whatever drug you are using, and that local populations can acquire a resistance if a certain med is over used in the area.

 

I, like Kathy, have found Ivermectin to be effective for body lice...and I've got studies for that, as well as personal observation.

 

I can colloquially comment that no visual worms are present after dosing, but I've not done fecal samples after treating with Ivermectin, and I do not rely upon it for internal worms but rotate other wormers. In practice that means I stagger what I am using if I have to treat body lice/mites with Ivermectin....I don't rely on Ivermectin for an internal seasonal worming but make sure I use something else.

 

Good thread...always use what works best for your flock knowing that a study can be a useful tool but can never replace real life husbandry and real life results (with a good fecal sample).

 

LofMc

Keeper of 15+ layers, common to specialty types for colorful egg baskets. Brooding Queens: The Queen Mum Silkie and 2 Bantam Cochin handmaids. Preparing to breed my own Olive Eggers! Barnevelder roo with Splash Marans and CL for egg color and color coding :D Former 4H leader, GDB Puppy Raiser, Homeschooler. Current ESL tutor. Proud new grandma. Loving wife to a very tolerant husband.
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Keeper of 15+ layers, common to specialty types for colorful egg baskets. Brooding Queens: The Queen Mum Silkie and 2 Bantam Cochin handmaids. Preparing to breed my own Olive Eggers! Barnevelder roo with Splash Marans and CL for egg color and color coding :D Former 4H leader, GDB Puppy Raiser, Homeschooler. Current ESL tutor. Proud new grandma. Loving wife to a very tolerant husband.
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post #447 of 455

@Lady of McCamley , thanks for your input! 

 

-Kathy

post #448 of 455
Actually I have been using it on my flock for prevention of lice and other parasites. (And on our pig too) I found instructions online for administering the injectable topically on the neck or wing. But this last time we had a bantam rooster that started having some odd symptoms within 2-3 days of the drops. I would come to the pen to find him on his back, feet up, eyes closed looking dead, but when I touched him he popped up. This was kind of cute/funny until the third time when I found him on his back in water and chicken poop and realized he wouldn't have chosen to lie down there... This made me realize there was a problem. Chicken epilepsy? Absence seizure?
This has happened about 8 times that I've seen in 10 days or so and I'm sure there are times it's happening that I don't see. Today I was at the vet with my dog and talked to her about the rooster. She explained - Since chickens are not mammals there is no blood-brain barrier, so ivermectin can go right to the brain and cause neurological problems.
This is obviously the case here. This is why you can find instructions for dosing most farm animals, but not so easily for chickens. I have just finished reading more on online about this drug's side effects in animals and there may be hope that it will clear his system in a couple weeks, but it also said there can be be permanent brain damage. sad.png He is the only one of 80 chickens that I have seen any side effect in, but it does seem pretty serious. I'm thinking we'll need to find a safer way to deal with lice.
FYI we gave our full size chickens 4 drops, bantams 3 drops and juveniles 2 drops. After my reading I know that only adult animals should have ivermectin. Also a few chickens at the beginning got a couple extra drops before we reduced the opening of our dropper bottle (he may have been 1 since I started with roosters). We threw out all eggs for 5 days.
Edited by omishsis - 11/24/16 at 3:07am
post #449 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by omishsis View Post

Actually I have been using it on my flock for prevention of lice and other parasites. (And on our pig too) I found instructions online for administering the injectable topically on the neck or wing. But this last time we had a bantam rooster that started having some odd symptoms within 2-3 days of the drops. I would come to the pen to find him on his back, feet up, eyes closed looking dead, but when I touched him he popped up. This was kind of cute/funny until the third time when I found him on his back in water and chicken poop and realized he wouldn't have chosen to lie down there... This made me realize there was a problem. Chicken epilepsy? Absence seizure?
This has happened about 8 times that I've seen in 10 days or so and I'm sure there are times it's happening that I don't see. Today I was at the vet with my dog and talked to her about the rooster. She explained - Since chickens are not mammals there is no blood-brain barrier, so ivermectin can go right to the brain and cause neurological problems.
This is obviously the case here. This is why you can find instructions for dosing most farm animals, but not so easily for chickens. I have just finished reading more on online about this drug's side effects in animals and there may be hope that it will clear his system in a couple weeks, but it also said there can be be permanent brain damage. sad.png He is the only one of 80 chickens that I have seen any side effect in, but it does seem pretty serious. I'm thinking we'll need to find a safer way to deal with lice.
FYI we gave our full size chickens 4 drops, bantams 3 drops and juveniles 2 drops. After my reading I know that only adult animals should have ivermectin. Also a few chickens at the beginning got a couple extra drops before we reduced the opening of our dropper bottle (he may have been 1 since I started with roosters). We threw out all eggs for 5 days.
t

Welcome to BYC!

Always best to dose based on weght and to use a proper syringe. The most common bird dose is 0.2 mg/kg, but i have seen one that says 0.4 mg/kg, and a few for pigeons that say 1 mg/kg.

The 0.2 mg/kg dose = 0.009 ml per pound
The 0.4 mg/kg dose = 0.018 ml per pound
The 1 mg/kg dose = 0.045 ml per pound

-Kathy
post #450 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by casportpony View Post


Welcome to BYC!

-Kathy

Thanks for the welcome!
I tried a syringe first but the only one I had was an insulin syringe. Unfortunately the molecules in ivermectin are too large to fit in such a tiny syringe, so I used the dropper bottle. Definitely learned an important lesson. hmm.png
Edited by omishsis - 11/24/16 at 8:04am
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