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Crele? - Page 8

post #71 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdotte View Post
 

Crele is a Game colour, it is made by a combination of Barring & (gold)Duckwing . Black Breasted Red is a male colour/pattern common to ER Birchen crow winged birds; eWh Wheaten  & eb Brown duckwinged birds. The latter make pseudo Crele looking birds.
Crele is an autosexing bird that can be made following this guide, substitute Barred Rock with a Cuckoo or barred bird of choice ( this depends on the breed you are wanting to make ie hardfeather Cuckoo OEG, softfeather BRock,Cuckoo Leghorn etc) and substitute Brown Leghorn for Partridge OEG,Welsummer or Light Brown Leghorn etc.
http://gallery.backyardpoultry.com/data/500/formulae_for_Gold_Legbar.JPG
In OEG the darker heterozygous male e+/e+ B/b+ are shown as Crele, as are the hens. The lighter homozygous e+/e+ B/B males are called Mackerels, there are no light Mackerel hens, as all hens are hemizygous e+/e+ B/-.
Silver Crele can be made using a Silver Duckwing hen.
David

The above diagram is from R.C. Punnett for the creation of the Gold Legbar which was the precursor to the Cream Legbar..

 

 

So great to see a discussion from all the powerhouse-minds on chicken gentics...Henk, Chris, Tim - others whom I haven't been in contact with ----- all of you who contribute so much to the conversation thanks guys!

 

:frow:bow 

Marek's:http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/mareks-disease-fact-site

BYC page:  http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/chickats-page  

BYC blog of sorts  http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/jottings-ii

 

"Was dich nicht umwirft, macht dich starker"   "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger."-Friedrich Nietzsche 

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Marek's:http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/mareks-disease-fact-site

BYC page:  http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/chickats-page  

BYC blog of sorts  http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/jottings-ii

 

"Was dich nicht umwirft, macht dich starker"   "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger."-Friedrich Nietzsche 

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post #72 of 76

I didn't get that the poster was using this as a Kangaroo word:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krodsorin View Post
 

Isnt Crele Actually CREam LEgbar

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdotte View Post
 

No

By taking the first letters of both words - it spells Crele.   duh?

:hide

Marek's:http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/mareks-disease-fact-site

BYC page:  http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/chickats-page  

BYC blog of sorts  http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/jottings-ii

 

"Was dich nicht umwirft, macht dich starker"   "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger."-Friedrich Nietzsche 

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Marek's:http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/mareks-disease-fact-site

BYC page:  http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/chickats-page  

BYC blog of sorts  http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/jottings-ii

 

"Was dich nicht umwirft, macht dich starker"   "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger."-Friedrich Nietzsche 

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post #73 of 76

And once again dusting off this old thread....

 

I found this chart very helpful:

 

SIRE.....................DAM..................SONS.............................................DAUGHTERS
Crele....................Crele............100% Crele.......................................100% Crele
Crele....................B.B. Red......100% Intermediate...........................100% Crele
Intermediate.......Crele...........50% Crele & 50% Intermediate.........50% Crele & 50% B.B. Red
Intermediate.......B.B. Red......50% Intermediate & 50% B.B. Red....50% Crele & 50% B.B. Red
B.B. Red..............Crele............100% Intermediate...........................100% B.B. Red

Intermediate
In genetic term an "intermediate" male is heterozygous for barring (Bb). Females carry but one sex chromosome so a B- female would be called hemizygous; a BB (Black Breasted) male would be homozygous for barring.

 

But I just want to confirm that a wheaten bird is considered to be a B.B. Red.  I went through all eight pages of this thread and a couple of other crele-related threads but just want to be absolutely positive I understood this key element clearly.

 

I was thinking of using a crele male over a wheaten female to start a new crele project. I am limited in the color varieties in my breed of choice but wheaten, brown red, and silver duckwing are available.  Would wheaten would be the best choice for the initial cross to a true crele male?

Love my bantam Ameraucanas!

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Love my bantam Ameraucanas!

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post #74 of 76

Not sure if this will be helpful.  In a book the late David Scriviner said that Crele is the barring gene plus duckwing. Duckwing - as I understand it is e+ on the E-Locus.  To my limited understanding the E-Locus on wheaten is ewh.  

 

That would lead me to think that your silver duckwing would be the best choice for a clean crele project.  You would get silver crele.  -- In this diagram the lower right corner shows a silver crele Leghorn:

 

All the images above show the crele plumage pattern.....barred - duckwing basically.

 

The second choice may be the BBR - because in some cases those are considered duckwing.  

 

This diagram shows chick down - based on the E-Locus:

It seems that you would/could get the appearance of crele with some of the other chick downs -- but the one Scriviner named was A in the diagram (e+ on the E-Locus) --- 

 

Here is some E-Locus information that I got in a handout from a genetics Seminar that I attended put on by Grant Brereton who is a chicken plumage genetics expert from UK:

Some Wheaten varieties are Rhode Island Red, Buff Orpington, Light Sussex, New Hampshire Red, Sulmtaler.  

 

Some e+  - based on wild type are Black-Red Old English game, Pyle Old English Game, Crele Araucana, Red Dorking, Silver-Grey Dorking 

 

ETA - the barring of Crele seems to present differently on different breeds....compare a Crele OEGB, a Leghorn and a Crele Orpington.   HTH


Edited by ChicKat - 6/21/16 at 2:43pm

Marek's:http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/mareks-disease-fact-site

BYC page:  http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/chickats-page  

BYC blog of sorts  http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/jottings-ii

 

"Was dich nicht umwirft, macht dich starker"   "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger."-Friedrich Nietzsche 

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Marek's:http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/mareks-disease-fact-site

BYC page:  http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/chickats-page  

BYC blog of sorts  http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/jottings-ii

 

"Was dich nicht umwirft, macht dich starker"   "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger."-Friedrich Nietzsche 

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post #75 of 76
uote:
Originally Posted by ChicKat View Post

 

That would lead me to think that your silver duckwing would be the best choice for a clean crele project.  You would get silver crele.  -- In this diagram the lower right corner shows a silver crele Leghorn:

 

Thank you for this!  So my starting point is a very nice crele (and from this chart, he must be 100% gold) OEGB male.  I want to work towards a crele Ameraucana.  I do have silver Ameraucana feales but I would really like to retain the gold of the OEGB which is why I was thinking I should start with a wheaten female.  But I've put the crele with the silver and we'll see what comes out while I wait to get a wheaten to try as well.

 

Thanks again for all your insight! 

 

 

 

Love my bantam Ameraucanas!

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Love my bantam Ameraucanas!

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post #76 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galinha View Post
 

Good luck with your project!

 

The chart was developed for the discussion a couple years ago on Cream Legbars.  There seemed to be a big push to have a silver-looking chicken as the ideal cream Legbar.  I was trying to communicate that silver doesn't equal cream.  The proponents of ultra light monochromatic cream legbars were calling anything that didn't look silver a 'gold' -- In theory a cream Legbar is supposed to be gold based...hence to my thinking a silver-looking one would be less desirable than a gold looking one.  The upper left corner was what a 100% gold bird would look like, and the intervening images were dilution of that gold.  

 

With a duckwing, the wing triangle will indicate if the bird is silver or gold.  brown wing triangle - a gold bird, white wing triangle a silver bird.  

If you could enlarge the picture you would see a brown wing triangle where the male indicates he is gold -- and the female has a very warm color -- I would say 'burnt orange' on her back feathers.  

 

Chicks with the very ultra light color on the lightest of their dorsal stripes (looking whte, silver or light gray) are said to be silver duckwing and those with a buff stripe are gold duckwing.  Of course there is always more to it than that....(of course)

 

Post back with your progress - it will be very interesting to see your result! 

Marek's:http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/mareks-disease-fact-site

BYC page:  http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/chickats-page  

BYC blog of sorts  http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/jottings-ii

 

"Was dich nicht umwirft, macht dich starker"   "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger."-Friedrich Nietzsche 

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Marek's:http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/mareks-disease-fact-site

BYC page:  http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/chickats-page  

BYC blog of sorts  http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/jottings-ii

 

"Was dich nicht umwirft, macht dich starker"   "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger."-Friedrich Nietzsche 

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