Red Laced Cornish X and project talk (pics p. 8) - Page 228

I read once in a book called Genetics of the Fowl by E.F. Hutt that he culls all sneezers, snifflers and coughers indiscriminately and his reason was to imitate nature in his controlled breeding environment.  I feel that that is something that is very much as important to a breeds survival as it's physical attributes.  I have no patience for a bird that sits and huddles under the heat or does not posses thriftiness.

 

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Originally Posted by Totalcolour 

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True - BUT, the STRONG offspring may survive in a lean year, and although many, even parents will die, the strong WILL survive so that when there is a good year, they rwill bound back. It's the way of the world!

Oh how I agree! Think that striving for perfection should be everyone's goal, but that it should be within the SOP. Or, that the SOP's should be rewritten so that we can go for perfection without the loss of breeding quality. JMHO

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Originally Posted by Cedarknob 

Totalcolor, I like the idea I read on here of a green [or preferably blue]  egg laying, dual purpose chicken. I eat an occasional Ameraucana or EE cull, and though pretty skimpy to look at, love the flavor; the breast meat being nearly as dark as a commercial meat bird's thigh and leg meat  I'll be trying to breed one myself, since I have Cornish cockerels with not enough pullets to keep them busy, and some Cornish Rock pullets fed for a slower growth, taste experiment that have not been butchered and now penned with my largest Ameraucana roos, plus 6 more Cornish Rock chicks on slow growth diets. I hope to see pictures of your recently hatched chicks.

I have three 10 day old Am/Cornish and I "THINK" 1 is a cockerel and the others pullets (well, there are only 2 sexes). So, I'm wondering; should I use a Cornish Cockerel on the Am/Cornish hens, or save the Am/Cornish cockerel and put him on Cornish hens?

Maybe I should just let them grown up first before deciding!

Okay, I got some pics, so maybe someone could help me here!

The black/white is an Icelandic/Sussex cross, and is the largest so far. It also has the biggest tail; are the ones that get the tail feathers first, are they the females  (or is that a myth?)

The two with the barred wings are the Am/Cornish cross - one with tail and one without.

This one has a pretty well developed tail too an d really long wings

This is an Icelandic/Ameraucana

And a pure Icelandic

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Originally Posted by kfacres 

 

 

and your point is??? 

 

I don't exactly see you having the most experience with them either.

 

and I could care less about having the 'experience'-- so what...  I have too many irons in the fire the way it is: and my birds are here to produce eggs.  I think running an incubator is too expensive, and have almost zero interest in hatching my own eggs. If I want chicken meat to eat-- I'm buying CX birds-- to think anything else is profitable, or worth while-- is almost ludicrious...

 

Right now, I have 4 Ameraucana chicks that I hatched out- 3 or 4 Cornish chicks- and one Silke cross covered by the Ameraucana that went broody on me-- and so I let her have some eggs. 

 

If you think that my interest and life goal is to create 'true quality Cornish' then your high on something.  What are $50 dollar chickens worth-- when compared to a couple thousand dollar heifer- or a 10 thousand dollar ram? 

 

My little ole "inferior' hens, as they've been called-- lay me enough eggs that I can fulfill our bellies-- and have one dozen to ship out each week..  We cannot eat much more than that-- so why feed them to the dogs-- may as well sell them to someone who wants them-- and people such as yourself refuse to sell to...

 

 Fulton Co

My point was that some here, including myself, sell or offer hatching eggs to those interested in a meat bird project. I did not intend to slam your hens, in fact have two I'm almost positive came from the same source, and he was very upfront that the eggs came from hatchery hens, just as your add states about your hens. Mine are a little better bodied and tighter feathered than most hatchery stock, as are yours, and I'm happy with them, but prefer my purebreds. To each their own.

As far as

"If I want chicken meat to eat-- I'm buying CX birds-- to think anything else is profitable, or worth while-- is almost ludicrious... "

why do you post on a thread that is for people wanting to breed their own meat bird projects?  Of course you are entitled to your opinion, and welcome here as far as I am concerned, but telling people that what they are doing is "not worth while and almost ludicrous" is not likely to win you many friends here, and might even be considered trolling. [It is nice of you to sell hatching eggs to those who do want to breed their own.]  I do already know I can buy CX chicks cheap, feed them lower priced and lower protein feed along with grass for slower growth, and get firmer and more flavorful meat without the rapid growth related deaths, than by butchering them at 7 or 8 weeks after feeding them in the recommended manner; but I would like to have my own source of chicks instead of relying on buying them from hatcheries . If our economy continues to decline, the day may come when buying hatchery chicks is not an option, and having our own flock could be the only source of the meat and eggs we middle or lower income people have available.  Plus, for some of us, we just plain enjoy breeding and raising what we eat.   

Quote:

Originally Posted by Totalcolour 

Okay, I got some pics, so maybe someone could help me here!

 

The black/white is an Icelandic/Sussex cross, and is the largest so far. It also has the biggest tail; are the ones that get the tail feathers first, are they the females  (or is that a myth?)

The two with the barred wings are the Am/Cornish cross - one with tail and one without.

 

 

 

This one has a pretty well developed tail too an d really long wings

 

This is an Icelandic/Ameraucana

 

And a pure Icelandic

 

Thank  you for sharing the pictures. Was the borrowed rooster an Ameraucana or Easter Egger? The leg shanks sure look yellow, and Ameraucanas are not supposed to be carrying a gene for yellow skin. I do not think they can be sexed reliably by their lack of tails. They do look like they carrying a barring gene don't they, which is strange. What color was the rooster?  

I hope they turn out nice for you.

I don't think it will matter much but consider how many eggs you want and I think the DC X AMXDC would be best and may lay a little better.  Pure DC hens tend to not lay reliably.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Totalcolour 

I have three 10 day old Am/Cornish and I "THINK" 1 is a cockerel and the others pullets (well, there are only 2 sexes). So, I'm wondering; should I use a Cornish Cockerel on the Am/Cornish hens, or save the Am/Cornish cockerel and put him on Cornish hens?

 

Maybe I should just let them grown up first before deciding!

 

you can argue with a brick wall all day long-- but in the end-- it's still a brick wall. 

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Originally Posted by Cedarknob 

 

As far as

 

"If I want chicken meat to eat-- I'm buying CX birds-- to think anything else is profitable, or worth while-- is almost ludicrious... "

 

why do you post on a thread that is for people wanting to breed their own meat bird projects?  Of course you are entitled to your opinion, and welcome here as far as I am concerned, but telling people that what they are doing is "not worth while and almost ludicrous"

 

[It is nice of you to sell hatching eggs to those who do want to breed their own.]  

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cedarknob 

Thank  you for sharing the pictures. Was the borrowed rooster an Ameraucana or Easter Egger? The leg shanks sure look yellow, and Ameraucanas are not supposed to be carrying a gene for yellow skin. I do not think they can be sexed reliably by their lack of tails. They do look like they carrying a barring gene don't they, which is strange. What color was the rooster?  

 

I hope they turn out nice for you.

 

OOOPS! I called the guy with the Rooster, and he told me it was a Marans! (I took the Dark Cornish girl over to his place). I would have thought the "barring" was perhaps lacing from the hen, or perhaps cuckoo from the Marans!  I like them though.

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Originally Posted by kfacres 

you can argue with a brick wall all day long-- but in the end-- it's still a brick wall. 

 

I really was not looking for an argument, and really must be dumber than a brick wall, because though I am trying, I really do not understand your posts. I read your page about your "ideal meat project" and the statement there that you are promoting your birds as just that, the ideal meat birds. Yet I've read that if you want to feed chickens to eat, you will buy CX, and consider anything else not worth while, even ludicrous, and another that you keep your chickens because they lay eggs and look good doing it. 

I also fail to understand why both you and chickened  are bashing breeders of show quality Cornish for breeding them to be built "wrong",  then bash them again as being selfish for not selling them to the people who do not like the way show quality Cornish look.  Do either of you really expect those show breeders to be happy to sell their Cornish to people who think that show quality Cornish are not built correctly?  Now I do understand the reasoning behind keeping a breed capable of live breeding, but fail to understand why you think those show breeders are being selfish by not selling to the people that bash them for what they have bred their Cornish to look like. I like the Cornish in those pictures of Al's and Pepper's, they do look like a lot the pictures from the 50's of ideal Cornish, as well as the colored paintings in the current version of the APA SOP.  That type is what made them so desirable to the first developers of the CX to cross on faster maturing breeds, the reason that pure Cornish were bought up by buyers for developing the CX, causing the already rare breed became even more rare. Now instead of thanking the few breeders that are clinging stubbornly to breeding their wide Cornish, some are both insulting the few breeders having them, and then turning around and calling them selfish for not selling some to them.

The best Cornish may have always have been difficult to breed, I do not have any experience before a few years ago, but have been told that they were. I know the modern CX are; both their male and female parents have to be kept on very controlled diets just to keep them physically capable of live breeding and the cost of labor makes A.I impractical on commercial meat birds [of course even then they last only for a few months, and only commercial growers are allowed to buy the parent lines anyway].  If the breeders of show quality Cornish go to the added trouble of keeping one of those cocks breeding naturally by meeting their special needs, or willing to A.I. them after they reach their mature size and width, and unwilling to sell to someone not willing to go to those lengths, I certainly am not going to bash the breeder. I can't really blame serious breeders of either Cornish or meat bird projects that were posting on the early pages back earlier and seem to have disappeared, and considering it myself,  because I really did not join this thread to have to justify why I breed quality Cornish, who I sell to, how many I sell, or why I would also like to develop a meat bird line that would be be easier to breed but better than the chicks sold as dual purpose breeds by a hatchery. Maybe I just need to be thicker skinned.