Necropsies - Page 13

I have a question about this whole topic that maybe someone can answer for me.

Has anyone gotten February/March chicks MMH that have reached the 3 week stage that have NOT taken ill?

Understandably, we are only hearing from the folks with problems, but I just want to make sure this wasn't a 100% sick issue.

I have an order coming in 3 weeks and wanted to make a decision as to whether to cancel it or not. This is our first experience with chicks and I don't want it to be a traumatic one for my kids.

If it is only 5% of the orders affected, I'll take my chances, but if it is closer to 80%...

I suspect the hatchery may be the right person to ask, but figured if I could hear from a couple folks here as well, that would make me a little more comfortable.

Thanks.

Yes... I have 23 chicks rec 2/25 that are at 4 weeks today and are happy healthy little piggies.

CritterHill,  I ordered with several other people in our area.  One woman ordered over 25 chicks and allowed us to join in with her.  I checked with her earlier this week when I started having symptoms with mine.  Hers are ALL healthy with no signs of problems and she had not heard from any of the others of any problems.  That leads me to believe, I likely had one or more who were ill and spread it to the rest of my girls.  I only have 4 chicks, with one from a feed store (who is still healthy).

That's great news!  I also have chicks coming from MMH on 3/31 and it's nice to know there's a glimmer of hope!  I know I could cancel but my heart won't let me.

Whatever you do don't rely on the Hatchery to tell you what percentage of their customers received sick chicks. When I called MM on March 20th to learn what was going on, I was not asked what my order number was, what my name was, and they were not interested in finding out anything about the nature of my chick's problems.  Nor have I received an e-mail requesting information as to whether my order (received March 3) had any health issues.  As a result, this shows they  simply aren't interested in attempting to learn this information which obviously would be of HUGE value in determining the source or extent of the problem as well as possibly quelling the concerns of customers such as you.      As the result of this, I canceled two additional orders (for Ducks and Geese) and do not plan on obtaining more chicks from them.  Why in the world would I want to take the chance when they are doing next to nothing to determine if there's a problem?  You need to make up your own mind, however, based upon all information available to you.
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The hatchery may be trying to track the problem on the back end and don't want to worry customers who may have perfectly healthy chicks. However, like most large businesses, keeping track of things can get tricky.

I recieved chicks 3/3 from MMH. So, they will all be 3 weeks tomorrow.

All of my meat birds are healthy and so are all of my Black Stars. (I've come to the conclusion that Black Stars are just too stinkin ornery to get sick.)
I wish I could say the same for the other 3 breeds, plus the free rare one I got, half of each breed are sick and half seem to have stayed healthy.
Those would be, Columbian Wyandottes, Golden Polish, White Crested Black Polish, and the free rare one which I think is an Easter egger.

BUT, I only have 2 that seem to not be getting better. They are all still really sick but at least the ones who couldn't stand at all now can. And I even have a couple who are starting to try to get into trouble when ever they have a chance.

I know one thing. We will not buy from a hatchery again. MMH or otherwise. We should have just went to a local farm this year like we did last year.

There are risks to getting new chickens no matter where you get them from.  If you go to a local small farm they may not be vaccinated at all so you could have the same problem.  The keys to this are good isolation and biosecurity when you bring in new stock.  You need to have that in mind long before ordering.

Answering the question of when to cancel an order is much more complicated.  It seems that some breeds have taken the brunt of the hit in this, however all the papers I have read say that the disease can be transmitted in the hatcher.  So any that had the infection and any that hatched in the same hatcher (which are the size of a large room in these places) have the ability to get sick.  Yes, just the ability, just because your exposed to a disease is not a guarantee your going to get it.  Further there is a vaccine to prevent AE, assuming that is what they all have.  The chicks from hens where the vaccine took should be immune to this, or at best get a mild case.  If they had a batch of vaccine that did not take they would not know which one it is nor would they know which hatcher your chicks came out of.  Gathering your information would be worthless to figuring this out.  Then add shipping stress to this (all chicks get it and it has a more profound effect on some than others) and you brooding them for weeks with other breeds, and the disease is easy to transfer in the brooder by fecal matter.  Can you see why they just don't need to know which chick breed is your sick one? 

Inside their breeder facility I'm sure they are doing test, and those might prove nothing.  You see the hens that had good vaccine, they have immunity and will show it in a blood test.  If there are any hens that got an ineffective dose of the vaccine, and got the disease will have long gotten over it.  They were sick while laying the egg that hatched into your chick, if that chick is now 3 or 4 weeks old add the 3 weeks incubation and you have 6 or 7 weeks.  They too will show immunity, and the tests will likely not be able to tell this natural immunity from the vaccination one.

It's not that they don't care that your chicks are sick, there is just no good information to be had from getting your numbers since there has been so much cross contamination from the hatcher, the shipping box, your brooder....

Since you have no way of knowing for sure if your breed is directly effected or by being in the same hatcher or shipped to the same home you can't say for sure 'don't order x breed' and anyone with chicks coming can't be sure what to cancel.  It's a personal decision, and it's not an easy one.  I'm super cautious so for me canceling would be natural.  Do what is right for you.

I have chicks from the 3/3 MM Hatch. 

Out of 30, I have 11 left, of those 5 are currently in "sick bay" taking Oil of Oregano and Xango.  Symptoms of this disease started at 2 weeks of age.  Prior to that we lost several to a pneumonia-like disease.  Those that are thriving are ALL dark-legged (black giant, white giant?, and araucana)...interesting

We received 32 chicks from MMH on 3/3.  We live in Missouri.  Two died in the first day, presumably due to shipping stress, although one of those two had a problem with the umbilicus and also still had lots of shell stuck to its abdomen.  A third one died two days later, but it had bad genetic deformations (no eyes, deaf, strangely shaped beak).  That was a pretty unpleasant experience but at least little 'Sunray' had a few days of life and was certainly loved.

After those initial three deaths, all was well and the chicks were growing rapidly and were very healthy.  At just over two weeks of age, one of them (Light Brahma) started shaking and her legs gave way.  We isolated her and hand fed/watered her.  Over the next three days, another Light Brahma and six Speckled Sussex began showing the same symptoms.  We isolated them too.

Now, the initial Light Brahma, named 'Carrot' seems to have recovered from the worst part of the illness.  She still shakes sometimes (a very fine, tremor type of shake) and is completely unable to walk.  She doesn't act sick anymore (no lethargy, has a great appetite, no more diarrhea or dull eyes).  I am going to the store tomorrow to buy a toy truck and will attempt to make a harnessed walker to see if we can rehabilitate her legs.  It would be much easier to cull her, but after hand feeding her for a week, we just can't give up on her yet.  I think her legs have atrophied and there are also probably neurological paths that aren't quite making a connection from brain to leg.  We'll see what happens.....

The other Light Brahma 'Big Dog', is doing the best, he can still sort of hobble around if he makes up his mind to, and is eating well.  Two of the Speckled Sussex are about to die, barely breathing and not opening eyes anymore.  Two of them can still sort of flop over to the food and water and might have a chance at some kind of life, if they can walk again.  The last two are a toss-up at this point.  I keep the food and water right by them and they eat sometimes.  I just don't have time to hand feed and water all of them or else I'd try.  It's been difficult enough hand feeding ONE of them, I just couldn't manage to do all eight!

We have breeds that have not been affected, or at least not yet (all came in the same order).  Those are Buff Orpingtons, Barred Rocks, Brown Leghorns, Araucanas, and the mystery chick, which we think might be a Blue Andalusian.  I have seen some little signs in the Buff Orpingtons, and the Barred Rocks all have diarrhea, but I hope I'm just paranoid and reading too much into it.  Time will tell.

Right now I'm giving the healthy chicks Poly-vi-sol in their water, and occasional small treats of chick starter mixed with yogurt.  I'm giving the sick chicks poly-vi-sol, terramycin, a bit of sugar in their water and daily yogurt or egg yolk for extra calories.

Good luck everyone!