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What exactly does breed for resistance mean? - Page 8

post #71 of 213
Originally Posted by gogoalie 

"Worms will eventually get resistant to every worm medication on the market. I don't know what will happen then," Do it the old fasioned way, breed them for resistance...big_smile

Yep, that was my point - everything "bad" becomes resistant at some point. So how do you keep up if you go that route? 

I don't worm; don't use pesticides or poisons or chemicals on anything on my farm (animals or crops); don't bleach things; don't vaccinate; don't use anitibiotics, and - I don't have any sick birds.  DH and I are at the feed stores and co-ops around this area almost daily.  Our farm is open for tours to everyone, including those coming to buy chickens who could, theoretically contaminate my birds.  I use the Joel Salatin approach which, so far, works for me and my animals.

We had a small tour group here the other day with some kids in it.  They were petting the goats when one pooped.  The kids first asked what that was coming out of the goat and about the time I said "it's poop", the ducks ran up and ate it.  So then they said "yuck, they're eating it".  I explained, "yes, they were cleaning it up".  Their mom spoke up and said "As God intended."

post #72 of 213

When Dr. Swartz was still at MSU before retiring he suggested I use the following procedure to get rid of CRD. CRD can not be cured but can be controlled. First vaccinate everything with the CRD vaccine. Start a monthly medication program for seven Days using one of the following, Tylosin, Erthromycin, Spectinomycin, or Lincomycin. With Tylosin being drug of choice and erthromycin second. Use in water or feed. His reasoning was that the medication would keep the disease in check and still useable. Vaccinating would bring up young birds that would not catch CRD. Young pullets should be taken off the antibiotics below using for table consumption.

For the bleach in water he suggested stock solution with 1-1 1/2 oz per gallon

Add this stock solution at 1 oz. per gallon of water continuously.

Coryza is a Bacterial infection.

anyone wanting to see pictures of the Wheaten and BC Marans  cross look on my profile page. 


I know very little about anything but will usually have an opinion on most everything.  DON


anyone wanting to see pictures of the Wheaten and BC Marans  cross look on my profile page. 


I know very little about anything but will usually have an opinion on most everything.  DON

post #73 of 213

The thing is, the only reason I have a farm is so that I can raise my own food and have it be healthier than what I buy at the grocery.  I drink the milk from my dairy goats every day.  I eat the eggs from the chickens every day.  We eat the chickens themselves when we can bring ourselves to process one.  I clean out the coops and use it to fertilize my vegetable garden and then I eat the vegetables I grow using a totally organic companion system.  If I were worming, and vaccinating, and parasiting and antibioticing (I think I invented a word or two) - would my food still be healthy for me?

post #74 of 213

very interesting read through this thread.  personally i cull sickly birds, dont vaccinate, worm or medicate.  I do "medicate" for cocci should i have an outbreak, but cull any obviously infected birds (already ruffled and listless, they would likely die anyways, but at this stage even if they survive they would likely be weak and compromised).  Should my birds ever show signs of worms i would de-worm them, though i have not had to as of yet in the two years i have been back into poultry.

I did one poultry show last fall when i was just starting back up, and did not have any negative effects frome exposing my birds to so many others.  i live on an island (ill-be-it a large island) but it is my beleif that whatever is here is already exposed to all the birds locally, especially with wild birds flying around (most people i know free range their birds, so they are exposed to wild birds frequently).  In future I will have to decide if showing is a risk i want to take, I did not this year as i was away for the annual show in my area, but i was leaning towards not entering as a precaution for my flock.

post #75 of 213
Originally Posted by lildinkem 
Originally Posted by NYREDS 

I'll tell you what it means to me.
I do not vaccinate for anything that way yes, the birds I raise are exposed to various pathogens. I also do not medicate for anything other than cocci but that's for a separate discussion. If a bird shows signs of disease it is culled immediately, no matter how good a prospect it appeared to be.
I have followed this program for a number of years and as a result I rarely have a sick bird because I am breeding only from birds with natural disease resistance.
I learned of this program of breeding for resistance from the writing of Fred Jeffrey who, among other things, wrote a book on chicken diseases. In the beginning of the book Dr Jeffrey stated that his chicken medicine cabinet consisted only of louse powder, a coccidiostat & a hatchet. That's all I have in mine.

I love to hear that others here on BYC that follow the old school type rememedies.   I like to think using different lines within a breed strengthens my birds from the everyday horrible diseases that plague the line breeders.
My worst experience was from hatchery stock that had been obviously been inbred too long.   And I agree, the weak will die and the strong lives on.  That is how mother natures works. 
I had another BYC member a year or so forward me these remedies that are also Old School cures.  Lots of neat info.
I know in the past when I posted these, some appreciated it.  hope some out there get the same enjoyment from these ideas.
Thought I'd share. 

Cod liver oil (for vitamin D deficiency)
- Oyster shell grit (for digestion)
- Dried crushed pumpkin seeds (Worms)
- Garlic (Worms, chest infection)
- Apple Cider vinegar (Worm and tonic, better calcium and Vit.D absorption)
- Cat food (protein)
- Tuna (protein)
- Egg yolk (protein)
- Honey (energy)
- Yoghurt (digestive tract)
- Grated apple (mineral and vitamin; coccidiosis)
- Baby rice/oats (Bulking in food mix)
- Back rescue remedy (Trauma)
- Orange, Rosemary, clove oils (fleas)
- Wormwood, tansy (immune booster)
- Olive oil (Sour crop, crop binding)
- Probiotics (harmful microbes)
- Baking soda (Crop flush - mix 1/2 cup in a pint of water and syringe it 3 x)
- Nettle (tonic)
- Vaseline (Scaly legs, frostbite, cut)
- Cayenne pepper (worm, coccidiosis)
- Colloidal silver (Anti fungal/viral/microbial)
- Sulphur dust (lice)
- Whey powder (Coccidiosis)
- Chickweed (Immune booster)
- Oregano oil (Immune booster)
- Peppermint, catnip, marigold oil (mite repellent)
- Diatamacious Earth or DE (Calcium, wormer, mite, prevent fly from hatching)
- Vitamin E oil (Molting stress, fertility problems)
- Hypericum (pain relief, nerve damage, stress and Marek)
- Cornstarch (cut)
- Pine tar (cannibalism)
- Black sunflower seeds (Worm)

Or per ailments, this gives us:
*Vit. D deficiency: Cod liver oil, ACV
*Tonic: ACV, grated apple, nettle
* Calcium defi ciency: AVC, Oyster shel l, DE, Crushed eggshell
* Protein deficiency: Cat food, tuna, egg yolk
* Energy boost: honey
*Immune boost: Wormwood, Tansy, probiotics, colloidal silver, chickweed, oregano oil
*Digestion problem: Oyster grit, yoghurt
*Bulk for medicine: Baby rice, baby oat
*Sour crop: Olive oil
*Crop binding: Olive oil
*Crop flush: Baking soda
*Worm: Pumpkin Seeds, garlic, ACV, cayenne pepper, DE, Black sunflower seeds
*Fleas: Orange/Rosemary/Clove oils
*Lice: Sulphur powder
*Mites: Peppermint, catnip, marigold oil, DE as repellent
*Fly: DE
*Chest infection: garlic water
*Coccidiosis: Grated apple, cayenne pepper, whey powder
* Marek: Hypericum (I think it is the same as St John's wort)
*Trauma: Bach Flower Rescue Remedy
*Cut: Vaseline, cornstarch, pine tar
*Frostbite: Vaseline
*Scaly leg: Vaseline
*Molting stress: All protein stuff, Vit. E
*Fertility: Vitamin E
*Pain relief: Hypericum
*Nerve damage: Hypericum
*Stress: Hypericum

I think you misread my post. I don't use any cures old school or otherwise. The only "cure" I use for a sick bird is a hatchet & since I have always bred for resistance I don't get many sick birds.

post #76 of 213
Originally Posted by gogoalie 

Breeding for resistence is exactly that. Exposing them to disease, via no vaccinations, & then gettin' sick, & allowing them to recover or die, & then breed that specific bird to produce offspring with a greater chance to defeat what ever infected the bird. Overtime, bred enough, you'll get a very disease resistant bird strain.

No, you're missing an important point. When they get sick they're not allowed to "recover or die", they're culled. Even if they were to recover they'd still be genetically predisposed to the particular disease. Obviously other birds in the flock would also have been exposed to the particular pathogen. The ones that don't get sick are the ones you keep to breed from.

post #77 of 213
Originally Posted by kathyinmo 

So, breeding for resistance does not include cocci. What about worms?

I see Bumblefoot as an injury, not an illness, isn't that correct?

Correct Cyn but in nearly 50 years of keeping chickens I've never had a case of Bumblefoot. That said I don't think you can breed for resistance to injury.

post #78 of 213
Originally Posted by kathyinmo 
Originally Posted by Noncentzter 

Culling - When non-vaccinated birds come down with a disease, do you cull (kill) or separate hoping they survive?  So far I have been separating and only one has survived and is doing quite well.

OH, that's a good question! I didn't think of that one.  However, if you kept it, wouldn't it infect (or expose?) the others?

Like I said-I "cure" sick birds with a hatchet. They seldom survive to be carriers.

post #79 of 213

NYREDS I really was thinking you as Old School cause you did not say Tylan to be the answer to all trouble.  To me, your medicine cabinet is OLD SCHOOL. 
I use a sledge hammer.  I prooly can't see as well as most and I don't miss.  lol

post #80 of 213
Originally Posted by gogoalie 

Kathy, keep in mind, I didn't know that a bird, once recovered, could contaminate again, with original sickness, that that bird recovered from, if that's the case, then you'll hafta keep that bird & any subsequent birds, that do get sick, & recover, quaranteened from the rest of yer flock. If they're bred, you'll need to remove the eggs immediatly, & incubate them seperatly, & also keep them away from the non sick birds to ensure that they too aren't carriers, with the disease passed on from mother to chick.

With that, you're breeding for resistance. It's Darwin's Theory in practice.

Immediate culling from the flock of those that aren't sick, is just artificial selection.

WHo has suggested culling birds that aren't sick?

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