Mareks Vaccine - Page 4

a very good post. I vaccinate all chicks due to loosing an entire flock of domoiques several years ago, sadly mereks is out there and everywhere. I was just shocked when one after another beautiful bird became paralized and eyes clouded over. My moms hatchery black sex links that ran with the dominiques for many years were not affected , she had them vaccinated. it happened suddenly too, these birds all ran together for 6 years then one day it just hit.we had a few birds given to us at that time of the outbreak from somone that was moving and couldnt take birds, might have come from them but we were never really sure. Could have come in on somones cloths or shoes from another farm. or wild birds, no way to really know. It is very prominent in our area now. I have been called by several show people in our area to come vaccinate for them cause they really just cant do it. But it is not hard to learn , a little pin prick is better than the scourge of mereks, and its subcutanous meaning only under the skin like  a TB test.

actually there is a guy on UTUBE showing you how to vaccinate an adult chicken for mereks, it was a bantam , the chicken couldnt have cared less, He used a harmless coloring in the vaccine to show you it goes just under the skin. Then you do have to keep it quarentined for around 2 weeks to allow immunity to build befor introducing into a flock

How to Vaccinate and Protect Against Marek's Chicken Disease and Poultry Health

Take a few minutes to read this article on how to vaccinate against Mareks Disease in your chickens..

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Chicken Article - Vaccinating Against Mareks Disease     by   K.J. Theodore of www.shagbarkbantams.com     

draw 3cc of diluent
         OK, I give. I finally put together an article exclusively for those of you who would like to learn how to vaccinate your chicks for Mareks Disease.

     First, as indicated in my article on Mareks Disease, the sooner you vaccinate your chicks, the more effective the vaccine will be. This is because the Mareks virus is virtually everywhere, travels on the wind, and can be anywhere in your environment. It's true that you can take precautions to reduce the risk of exposure to your chicks until you have a chance to vaccinate, but basically, the longer you wait, the higher the risk. It takes about 10 days for full immunity to develop after vaccination, so plan your program accordingly. Also order your vaccine plenty of time in advance of your hatch. When you receive your vaccine, you'll get both a tiny vial that contains a freeze-dried vaccine and a large bottle of diluent to dilute and re-hydrate the vaccine. Refrigerate the small vial. You can keep the diluent at room temperature but out of direct heat or sunlight.

     Let's begin with a list of needed supplies. You'll need the freeze-dried Mareks vaccine (and accompanying diluent for re-hydration), an unopened 1cc syringe with a very small needle (5/8 or 16mm), an unopened 3cc syringe with standard needle, rubbing alcohol, cotton balls, an 'ice bath' (bowl containing chipped ice) if you plan on taking more than half an hour to administer after mixing, and of course, a cheering section.

     After popping the tops off of both the diluent and the vial of freeze-dried vaccine (leaving the rubber stoppers in tact in both cases), apply alcohol to the rubber stoppers of each. Take the 3cc syringe and draw a full 3cc of diluent.

     Insert the needle into the freeze-dried vial of vaccine and inject all 3cc of diluent. Shake the vial very gently to re-hydrate the vaccine. While using the same 3cc syringe, draw back on the plunger to draw in 3cc of air.

     Insert the 3cc syringe into the vial to release the air and break the vacuum so that you can draw the vaccine out of the vial. With the needle just inside the rubber stopper and the vial upside down, draw all of the hydrated vaccine out of the vial.

     Insert the needle into the bottle of diluent and inject the entire 3cc of vaccine. Gently rock the bottle of diluent back and forth to mix the solution. You now have active vaccine ready to administer to the chicks. Using your 1cc syringe (for the first time), draw out as much vaccine as you are comfortable with handling at one time. Each chick will receive 0.2cc of vaccine. (This dosage applies to all sizes of chicks.) That means that if you fill the 1cc syringe to the 1.0 mark, then you have enough to vaccinate 5 chicks before you need to redraw vaccine from the diluent bottle. Place the diluent bottle full of active vaccine into the 'ice bath' until you need to draw again, IF you think you will take more than half an hour to administer all of the vaccines. (The virus dies and renders the vaccine ineffective after about one hour.)

     Next (and assuming that you are right-handed), take the first victim - I mean chick - in your left hand, face down and with the head facing away from you. Use your left forefinger and thumb to separate the 'fuzz' on the back of the neck of the chick. Don't worry if it doesn't work, the next step will help it along.


draw 3cc of re-hydrated vaccine ,hold chick face down ,insert needle just under skin injected vaccine creates bubble

Use an alcohol-soaked cotton ball to clean the injection site. You will notice that the alcohol makes most of the fuzz seem to disappear, and you will see the skin clearly. You should also be able to see some tiny veins through the skin. This is good, since it will help you to avoid them when injecting the vaccine (of course this offers no help whatsoever when trying to avoid vaccinating yourself).



     Using the 1cc syringe with vaccine in it, insert the needle at an angle toward yourself, and just under the skin. You won't need to insert the needle very far in order to grab just enough skin with the tip of the needle to insure that you are truly just under the skin, as opposed to into the muscle. A slight lift up on the inserted needle tip will verify further where you are. (Yes, that yellow chick lived.)

     When you inject the accurate dose of 0.2cc of vaccine just under the skin, you will notice a 'bubble' forming where the vaccine is accumulating. This means that you are properly administering a subcutaneous (or SQ) injection of the vaccine. (I know, different chick used for the bubble picture. No, the other one did not die while I was doing this. Honest.)

     Be sure to swipe your needle over an alcohol-soaked cotton ball in between injections to keep your needle sterile for your next chick.

    After vaccination, the chicks may seem, well, like they might die. They may be in a little bit of shock from the chill of the alcohol to the back of their neck. After all, they're preferably only a day old and still accustomed to being very warm. Keep them closely monitored for 24 hours to insure that they don't get out from under the brooder during that time or get flipped over. You should right them when you notice that happening and place them squarely under the brooder. No, it is not necessary for you to stay up all night with them, but I know many of you will be tempted. (I know who you are.)

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I'm going back and forth on vaccinating. I'm picking up new chicks next week from Ideal and they don't recommend vaccinating for Marek's in a small flock, but after reading the BYC posts, I am worried. I've contacted the local Ag. Extension Agent and they have not answered my question of if the disease is in the area. He forwarded my questions to a poultry specialist at Texas A&M and this is his response to my questions:
Me: I have read that vaccinated birds will shed the virus and potentially infect any non-vaccinated birds that are introduced. Dr. Moore's statement seemed to back this up. Please help me out here in understanding the vaccine. I don't wish to vaccinate if the virus is not in my area. I also don't want to vaccinate if all chickens brought in in the future will have to be vaccinated in order to not contract the virus.
Response: There are no absolutes when it comes to vaccination strategies and biology for that matter.   If you dont vaccinate the entire flock with a live vaccine you can cause the disease in unvaccinated birds.   If you used a killed vaccine then its not so much of a problem, but your immunity/protection may not be as good.    So you can vaccinate your entire flock properly each time that you get new birds in and protect them against a pretty common pathogen or you can risk it and do nothing.    Chances are youll be fine either way, but the one time that you do get it youll wish that you had vaccinated..   You need to determine in your own mind if its worth the expense and trouble to vaccinate these birds properly.   
Me: Are you saying the vaccinated birds can be carriers, and infect unvaccinated birds? Or that not vaccinating some birds opens them up to infection from other sources?
  Can chickens potentially get sick and die from the vaccine virus?
Response: Yes maam, a live vaccine can actually cause the disease in certain cases.   Thats why you want to follow the label instructions and to do it properly.   All that a vaccine is is a weakened or killed version of the actual pathogen.    Same thing as a flu shot.   You feel crummy for a day or so as your body responds to the vaccine, but its weakened enough (if alive) so that youre body can easily overcome it. 
Morgan B. Farnell, Ph.D. AgriLife Extension,
Department of Poultry Science
Texas A & M University

Sounds like horsejody is saying the vaccine is a turkey virus and chickens DON'T get sick from it, live vaccine or not. You would think this guy from A&M would know what he is talking about. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this contradict what horsejody is telling us?
Kathy

I have read all the posts, and also read Peter Brown's perpective on Mareks at First State Vet Supply.  I have decided I am going to vaccinate my day old chicks when they hatch, and also my older birds all at the same time.  The vaccine  is inexpensive, and I really dont see what the downside would be.  I dont have a large flock, but I have a lot of time invested  in my birds, and if I can prevent losses, I'm going to do it.  I realize a lot of people dont vaccinate, and I totally respect their decision.  Everyone has different methods, and angles.   This is just what I feel is best for my birds.  And I feel I am making the best decision for me.  I've heard a lot of stories from folks who have dealt with Marek's, and I would be horrified if my birds came down with it when there is a vaccine that could have prevented it... that's all.

I got a very lengthy and informative explanation from a poultry vet at Texas A&M. He preferred not to be quoted, so I have paraphrased him and left out his name.

The Marek's vaccination for chicken is a turkey herpes vaccine and does not cause disease.  However, it also does not prevent infection with the chicken virus, it only prevent disease from the virus. The birds can harbor and spread the chicken virus onto your farm even though they are vaccinated and will not develop disease. Additionally, commercial breeds are much more resistant to Marek's virus than the fancy breeds, so you often don't see disease from these milder stains of Marek's in the "normal" breeds most people are used to working with (unless it is a virulent strain that tends to be resistant to the HVT vaccine, which is uncommon).

If you begin with vaccination and continue to vaccinate chicks at hatch, then you would see no problems (again unless you are unlucky and get one of the very virulent viruses on your farm, which would require stronger vaccine - again very uncommon).

The potential problem comes with bringing vaccinated birds with field strain virus or unvaccinated birds onto a farm with field strain virus already present on the farm.  These unvaccinated chicks will develop disease, and the vaccinated birds will still be infected and help to propagate the virus and ensure that it remains on the farm in high enough numbers to cause disease in unvaccinated chicks. Older birds are much more resistant to Marek's disease, so we typically see very little if any disease in birds infected late in life.

The disease is prevalent anywhere chickens have been raised for an extended period (rule of thumb, anywhere you see feathers, since the disease is shed from the feather follicles).  The exception to this is closed clean flocks; flocks that do not have the virus and in which no new birds are brought into the flock (or nearby to the flock) as a potential source of the virus.  These flocks typically remain clean, since there is no introduction of new birds which can potentially be infected with the virus.

If you are starting a new flock and don't plan to add birds, then you might gamble that the original birds are clean and not vaccinate.  However, if you plan to add birds regularly to the flock then you probably need to have them vaccinated, since you chance of introducing the virus is much higher.  Most back yard flock owners are somewhere in between. 

I also warn that these vaccinated chicks/birds can infect other unvaccinated young birds (this is not the HVT vaccine itself, but the fact that vaccinated birds can also carry the chicken field strains of the virus).  This can potentially include infection of quail, pheasant, and sometimes turkeys, although infection of theses species are not as common, especially in non-commercial farms.  I often simplify this too much am make it sound as if the vaccine causes the disease, sorry if that caused any confusion.  Let me know if you have any other questions or concerns. 

If anyone has any questions, I can email you his name and email address. He has been very patient and helpful to me. I wish this was an easy, black or white decision, but unfortunately, it is not. Since I have not had birds before, and there are none close by, I think I will go with Ideal's recommendation, and not vaccinate. I may regret it later, but will know then. I don't want to have a bunch of carriers of the disease. I would consider them to be "Typhoid Mary's".

Kathy

So, for hen-raised chicks, is there any point in vaccinating?  Since you won't be able to quarantine, is there any benefit?

I just read over all the posts again and this is what I have gathered.  Correct me if I am wrong.  Vaccination does not prevent the disease, only the tumors and fatal effects of the disease, should they become infected. In other words, if your chickens are vaccinated, they are NOT carriers, unless they ARE exposed to the "field" strain,which is not the same as the vaccine but similar enough to create some protectivr immunity... in which case they won't have symptoms, or mild symptoms, but will be carriers.  If they are not vaccinated, and are exposed to the "field" strain,you won't have to worry about them being carriers, because most will just die. You must quaranteen newly vaccinated chicks for 10 days so they will not be exposed to the "field" strain, in which case if they are, THEY will die before they have developed immunity. Older chickens have probably already been exposed if they are over 7 months of age and have developed immunity... But you can vaccinate them if you want, and if they haven't been exposed it offers protection, and if they have been exposed, you are out 10 cents.  This is how I understand it.  I re-read all the posts twice.It is a little confusing, but I think I understand.  Is that how all of you understand it?

I think you are correct, but this is from my limited understanding. It sounds to me that what Dr. Fulton is saying is that vaccinated birds are not carriers of the "vaccine virus", which sounds to me to be the turkey strain in the vaccine. But, he does not address the carrier issue of the field strain virus. 

But you can vaccinate them if you want, and if they haven't been exposed it offers protection,

My understanding is that I don't think it can offer protection if not exposed. If not exposed, why would you need protection?

Older chickens have probably already been exposed if they are over 7 months of age...

As I understand, if it is in your environment, yes, they would have been exposed.
So, in other words, once you start vaccinating, you will need to always have vaccinated birds, or run the risk of them contracting the disease from any exposed, vaccinated birds, because you won't know if they are carriers or not. Of course, if you have had the disease in your flock in the past, you would know that they are carriers.
Hopefully, someday they will come out with a vaccination for the Marek's disease of chickens (not turkeys) that protects them from getting the (chicken) virus, not just the symptoms. Exposed, vaccinated chickens are still getting the virus, they are just not getting sick from it. IMO.
I was a veterinary technician for 20 years. I have been on both sides of the vaccination table. I have seen animals over-vaccinated for things they are not even exposed to, all to line the pockets of the veterinarian. A few of these animals died from reactions to the vaccines. I have also worked for vets who address each animal's exposure on an individual basis and vaccinate as needed, giving the pet owner the knowledge and choice to make their own decision. The second option sure seemed like a more honest, moral approach.
I'm choosing not to vaccinate based on my best guess as to exposure and risk (on both sides).