Heritage Large Fowl Thread - Page 409

Why don't we leave it at that. I would hate, hate to see this thread get locked. It is one of the most educational threads on this site.

It is possible to discuss a different PoV without the whole thing going up in flames. Why would the thread end up getting locked over a side discussion about nettiquette and dealing with a complaint? We could easily turn this into a teaching moment; being told to contact the breeder is great, but what exactly should be said?

(open question to all)
How would you inform someone that you are less than thrilled with the birds you purchased? Under what circumstances would you say anything at all? Would you speak up if there is a certain percentage overall of birds that have problems, or would you categorize the degree that they may be off from the SoP?

I don't want to see this thread locked either. I honestly don't see why it would be since the earlier post was taken care of. I will comment on culling.



If I hatch 100 chicks of a given breed (which I do), I hope to be able to keep maybe 10 of them! It's not that the 90 are bad (though some may be); it's that they just aren't up to the Standard from my perspective. I show all the breeds I keep. Each year I hope they get better and better. However, that is NOT always the case.

Let me give an example.

Cubalayas: I was talking to a long time breeder the other day. He made the comment that he had had his birds for well over 30 years now with no additional blood added. Two years ago all the chicks had stubbs on their legs. He had to kill all those hatched that year. He never put in any blood from birds with stubbs, nor had he ever had any hatched, but they sure did that year. Things like this happen with the best of birds. We all have culls. Some years with have more culls than normal. Many years we see improvement. Some years we realize it has all been a waste (learning experience is the positive way to say it) because we don't know we've raise a bunch or crap chickens until they are nearly grown!!!

If individual breeders can and do experience such things then so can those who are making their living from chickens.

If you order 25 chicks and can keep a trio then consider yourself above average! No need to call anyone about it. Heck if I sold you my $35 chicks and you called me then I'd tell you I have culls to and only keep 10% in the best of years. 3 of 25 is better than 10% if I remember my math correctly.

As living organisms chickens will show faults. Best to best only goes so far.

I live by the 10% Rule. It keeps me sane. Besides, all of us need something to eat too. lol.

Buffalo,
I think I was answering your question while you were writting it. lol.

10% is great.

Hello, all

I would like your input.
My husband and I are trying different breeds to see which appeal to us and enjoy our climate (high humidity all year round, hot summers, cold winters.) We prefer friendly chickens that are able to forage well. Next year I would like to try some CALM white egg layers, such as Dorkings or Barred Hollands. I have found that Sandhill sells both. Does anyone know of another source for both?
Thanks!

The Barred Hollands has a major issue. No white eggs. The ALBC is a working on an Improvement Project much like the Buckeyes and Javas. Have not heard of the quality of the Sandhill birds. But some of the best quality Barred Hollands is BYC member Jenscott. She is working to improve the size, type and the egg color on hers. She also has the largest privately, non-hatchery flock of Barred Hollands in the USA.

Both the Dorking and Hollands needs breeders. So either breed would do you well. Order as many as you can and cull heavy no matter what breed you get. Like was said before, about 10% will be quality, no matter who the breeder is.

I agree with Saladin here. If I purchase 25 chicks from a breeder (as I have done with Duane and several others), I figure I am extremely lucky to get a show quality trio out of the 25. I mean, I figure roughly 50% will be cockerels. Then out of the pullets, perhaps one or two may have a color that is less than perfect, or a type issue of some kind, or comb fault, or whatever.

When it comes to my own birds, I agree with the ten percent theory. Many, many of my birds hatched in a given year that I keep wind up being sold as "layers" or eaten by us. Last year I wound up keeping one Buckeye cockerel out of the probably 30 or so I initially held onto. Lots of birds in the freezer this past winter, and that's ok.

Keep the best, cull the rest.

But when it comes to buying birds, if one expects to get an entire batch of SQ birds from a box of chicks, I think that's an unrealistic expectation. Personally, if I am trying very hard to improve a breed, I will go out of my way to buy adults, and will pay accordingly for them (I won't even tell you how much I paid for a pair of Dutch Bantam pullets one time from a master breeder, you'd faint dead away.)



If I did wind up with birds that had problems, I would contact the breeder directly, and try to work it out. I would be careful in my language not to accuse or disrespect the breeder, and I would never think to complain online. Just not something I ever do. Believe me, the fancy is small enough that if a breeder consistently has a problem, word will get out, no question. But a one-time issue may be just that, a one-time issue.

Personally, I would contact the breeder directly and find out what could have happened. Learn from the experience and move on. I would never outright state on a board that a breeder I had purchased from sold "bad" birds. There are too many factors relating to the showability of a given bird. Posting on a board about how a person's birds were "sub par" will only halt other breeders from selling to you. 

Specific to the situation, I would call said breeder and ask what could have caused the inverted spikes and hollow combs. Ask the master breeder, he will be more than happy to give you information and ideas. Especially if it was an environmental factor related to incubation, shipping, handling or even feed requirements of the breeders. This will also help him know if there is an issue.

Better response than mine.

If environmental in nature, then figuring out how to prevent should be high priority.

Doesn't that get to the heart of the question? Are inverted spikes environmental or genetic?

Edited to say; nevermind.