Heritage Large Fowl Thread - Page 535

THanks for the input Walt, and Hi Kathy!

Kathy I'm not implying that a show bird is simply a show bird. I understand a LOT of effort went into breeding the birds and to prepare it for competition.  ( I've shown dogs and I've shown horses a little bit.)  And the SOP was very carefully considered when it was established.

Based on the two shows I went to and watched, I wouldn't buy stock just on show winnings. Not sure I'm making my point.  The keel is checked for defects because it is the structure to hold the breast muscling. So the keel is very important. What I'm interested in knowing is: Is the amount of breast muscling evaluated?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAFarm 

Walt, I remember reading that to get birds with straight keels, they needed a broad roosting place instead of a narrow one.  Have you, or any other breeders here, ever heard of or had experience with this?  Do you keep roosts in your grow-out pens?  Is a dip in the keel indicative of anything besides genetics?

My experience is that it is genetic. Everyone like to blame the incubator, roost, etc, etc, but 99% of this has nothing to do with where or how a bird roosts. I have raised a ton of birds and that is what makes me say that it is genetic. My roosts are whatever I get get to span the width of the cage. I have pipe, different widths of wood.....you name it. The grow out pens all have roosts cuz I use them for other purposes after raising the young.

Walt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arielle 

THanks for the input Walt, and Hi Kathy!

 

Kathy I'm not implying that a show bird is simply a show bird. I understand a LOT of effort went into breeding the birds and to prepare it for competition.  ( I've shown dogs and I've shown horses a little bit.)  And the SOP was very carefully considered when it was established.

 

Based on the two shows I went to and watched, I wouldn't buy stock just on show winnings. Not sure I'm making my point.  The keel is checked for defects because it is the structure to hold the breast muscling. So the keel is very important. What I'm interested in knowing is: Is the amount of breast muscling evaluated?

All of it is considered. We look/feel the skeleton, fleshing, muscle etc....everything short of exraying the bird. all of that is very important and in fact does make up the looks of the bird. Just because you can't see something does not mean that the judge did not manually check for the SOP requirements. If you have an APA SOP read the first 39 pages. That is where it tells what we look for. 39 pages worth of info most beginners never ever read. This is where the answers are.

Walt

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlman01 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arielle 

THanks for the input Walt, and Hi Kathy!

 

Kathy I'm not implying that a show bird is simply a show bird. I understand a LOT of effort went into breeding the birds and to prepare it for competition.  ( I've shown dogs and I've shown horses a little bit.)  And the SOP was very carefully considered when it was established.

 

Based on the two shows I went to and watched, I wouldn't buy stock just on show winnings. Not sure I'm making my point.  The keel is checked for defects because it is the structure to hold the breast muscling. So the keel is very important. What I'm interested in knowing is: Is the amount of breast muscling evaluated?

All of it is considered. We look/feel the skeleton, fleshing, muscle etc....everything short of exraying the bird. all of that is very important and in fact does make up the looks of the bird. Just because you can't see something does not mean that the judge did not manually check for the SOP requirements. If you have an APA SOP read the first 39 pages. That is where it tells what we look for. 39 pages worth of info most beginners never ever read. This is where the answers are.

 

Walt

SOP is at the top of my Christmas list!!!  Thanks for putting up with a newbie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kathyinmo 

I think some folks are under the impression that a bird bred to standard is "simply," a show bird. I have read many posts insinuating that. In general - if a bird is bred to standard, and is a good representation of it, then it should also be a good dual purpose bird (or whatever their purpose is). Anyway, that's what Walt taught me.

Even though we had a rocky start, you were smart enough to at least consider some of the things I said. I enjoy sharing what I know or believe about poultry with people like you Kathy. You have the potential to do good things for the heritage chicken....you have already made remarkable progress with the Dels...just keep your nose clean and stay out of my way......mkay?

Here down is not directed to anyone, but just something I wanted to say.

Folks ...you don't have to show these birds. When they are put together close to the SOP they are just .......eye candy as we BYCers say. The best part is that they will perform everything they did back in the day because of the way they are built. Most of the American breeds were the evolution of what was available to them at their location....and you didn't text the guy in the next county to see what he was doing. We see variations of the breeds to make them more suitable to their area........thus the comb variations by locale.

The problem here is that if it is posted once it becomes true...and a lot of people on this site don't like showing. In case no one has noticed there are just some people that enjoy running down showing even though they have never even been to one. I don't enjoy golf...this is what I do ..

BTW: We have had Corgi's for 25 years or more and the wife  shows them and does well. A) there is nothing in common with a dog  show and a poultry show other than they are both shows. There is only a number on the coop card, not a name, the numbers you have to beat to get a champion etc.. B) and my pet peeve..... I don't care what you bred before, especially dogs.....there are very few similarities. That most dogs do not need a precise color pattern is a big difference by itself.  ......they are much looser in the dog world. Their Standards are fairly short.

Walt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arielle 

SOP is at the top of my Christmas list!!!  Thanks for putting up with a newbie.

Thats what they pay me the big bucks for.

w.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlman01 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arielle 

SOP is at the top of my Christmas list!!!  Thanks for putting up with a newbie.

Thats what they pay me the big bucks for.

 

w.

I'm glad to hear they pay you.......cuz I thought for a moment that you were doing this out of the goodness of your heart.   Whew, you almost ruined your grumpy (or was it cranky) image there!

Good to hear the roost thing was one of the untrue things that is out there.  I'll focus on handling my birds more often to "get a feel" for the differences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlman01 

Folks ...you don't have to show these birds. When they are put together close to the SOP they are just .......eye candy as we BYCers say. The best part is that they will perform everything they did back in the day because of the way they are built. Most of the American breeds were the evolution of what was available to them at their location....and you didn't text the guy in the next county to see what he was doing. We see variations of the breeds to make them more suitable to their area........thus the comb variations by locale.

 

Walt

I realize you don't have to show them, but for myself...

I'm a very visual person. I can study the standard, look at pictures, do everything I can to study and learn. But some things just don't "click" with me until I am looking at it in person, preferably with someone who knows pointing out the differences. I just really think it will help me to be a better caretaker, preserver and breeder if I get that experience that only comes with people like you Walt pointing out both the good and bad things to me. I guess I'm slow, but I can learn, it's just so much easier when I have something to compare to.

I guess if I had someone who lived close enough to come to the farm, sit out by the pond and watch the chickens with me and point out things to me in person I wouldn't need shows. But in my situation I don't have that, so going to a show is the only way I can think of to learn what I need to know. I've already ruined one strain of birds in my life. I don't intend on ever repeating that mistake.

I guess that's my main reason for wanting to show. Not to try and win anything really, but to learn in that crazy way my brain comprehends. As you know, sometimes I miss the most obvious things. For someone like me it's like not being able to see the forest for the trees.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Blosl 
Any one have a long brick shaped Rose Comb Red  female they can loan me?

I'm not sure how this year's chicks will turn out Bob, but if I have an extra pullet you like when they mature I'd be happy to give you one.

It would be a small down payment on all I've learned from your posts. lol