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The Heritage Rhode Island Red Site - Page 994

post #9931 of 11637
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebirdnanny View Post

I have 4 up and coming cockerels if anyone is interested. I know Freds Hens has dibs on the best of the four. Then three will be available. I'm northeastern lower Michigan if anyone is interested in them.


I noticed you are in Northeast lower Michigan. I am originally from Northwest lower Michigan, Traverse City, actually just north, Elk Rapids. Around 50 years ago I had Leghorns when I was there. Moved to Florida a long time ago. Have been in Florida most of my life though.


Edited by cmom - 12/6/15 at 7:39am

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Pure Single Comb & Rose Comb Rhode Island Reds, Rose Comb Rhode Island Whites & Leghorns.

Member of the American Poultry Association, the Rhode Island Red Club of America, &

Central Florida Poultry Breeders Association. NPIP Certified Participant

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HEY LOOK!!!
UPCOMING FLORIDA Swaps/Sales/Shows/Events - Georgia Too
Click Here --->  FLORIDA!!!!!ALWAYS SUNNY SIDE UP!!!  (BYC Florida Members Page)
Pure Single Comb & Rose Comb Rhode Island Reds, Rose Comb Rhode Island Whites & Leghorns.

Member of the American Poultry Association, the Rhode Island Red Club of America, &

Central Florida Poultry Breeders Association. NPIP Certified Participant

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post #9932 of 11637
Ah ok. Thanks.
post #9933 of 11637
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebirdnanny View Post

Oh she was an oops where a RIR got on a Rock hen. She is on her way out. Being nice and letting her teach the pullets from this year the boundaries first. She is in molt too. Have two rocks and about 3 kittle birds will cull soon. I want 100 percent Nelson Based Rhode Island reds for the next years. Building up my flock for better selection choices to breed and the rest for eggs, meat and sale in the future.wink.png


Would you mind telling me why you prefer the Nelson RIRs?  I am new to RIRs & am still learning.  Thanks.

post #9934 of 11637


Asmorilda.   I have several "strains" or "lines" of Reds.  There is far, far too much emphasis given to naming these lines.  These persons of Reese, Blosl, Nelson, Rademacher, etc have usually not directly bred these birds.  In fact, those venerable folks haven't bred their parents, grandparents on back for 6, 8 or 20 generations in some cases.   And what about the breeders before Don Nelson blended all those birds into his own? 

 

Use of the "so and so person" may have some value, but it is hugely overstated.  Today, we might speak of Matt's birds (Ulrich) or Steven's birds (Gribble).  The reality is that after YOU breed them for a couple of generations and YOU make the breeding decisions?  They're your birds.  The last breeder may want nothing to do with having his name attached to birds we may mis-manage under our care.  Who is to say our beginning pool of birds is even a very good starting point?  Do we know what we're doing when we mate them?  Are we actually spiralling downward quickly with the birds given us?  These are all good questions.

 

OK, so now back to why someone might like the birds attributed to Don Nelson.  Unless you got them directly from Don last weekend in Knoxville, Don isn't likely to care very much one way or the other about birds you have.  "They didn't come from me" might be what he'd say.  Don cooped in a pullet right next to my two pullets in the show.  His bird was a bit nicer in feather than the two I cooped in.  Did it win?  No. It didn't place significantly higher, as judged by ONE judge, at a moment in time, than my bird next to it.  I could see the line's similarity, but Don must work every year, every year, and work hard to produce good birds by making good decisions about his breeding stock.  So must I.

 

I hope this helps everyone understand that these birds do not magically maintain anything year after year without our constant oversight and selection process.  Pretty good temperament is in most of the quality bred Reds.  I've had a few individuals, here and there that were less than nice, but overall, I love the breed for it's curiousity and very friendly nature. Wonderful birds to handle and to show.  Very special.

 

 

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post #9935 of 11637


Nanny, This is #3 isn't it?  He was the best male we put on the ground last year, I believe.  He got a point torn off his comb so his trip to Knoxville was cancelled, but yes, Nanny, use him.  He's the better of the two.  Only use the other K#1, I believe his number was, if, God forbid, something happened to this one.

 

 

Practicing Sustainable Agriculture At The 45th Parallel

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Practicing Sustainable Agriculture At The 45th Parallel

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post #9936 of 11637

I would just like to add that those wishing to preserve these fine lines have to start somewhere and with selective breeding can produce some very fine birds (descendants of the lines) regardless of who started them. I also listen and learn. One of my favorite books is "The Call of the Hen" (Or the Science of the Selection and Breeding of Poultry) by Walter Hogan (1913), a poultryman. It is only available in reprint and the illustrations are rather poor but the information is great. Just my opinion.

 

Here is some good information about the different lines. http://jimspetsandpoultry.weebly.com/

HEY LOOK!!!
UPCOMING FLORIDA Swaps/Sales/Shows/Events - Georgia Too
Click Here --->  FLORIDA!!!!!ALWAYS SUNNY SIDE UP!!!  (BYC Florida Members Page)
Pure Single Comb & Rose Comb Rhode Island Reds, Rose Comb Rhode Island Whites & Leghorns.

Member of the American Poultry Association, the Rhode Island Red Club of America, &

Central Florida Poultry Breeders Association. NPIP Certified Participant

Reply

HEY LOOK!!!
UPCOMING FLORIDA Swaps/Sales/Shows/Events - Georgia Too
Click Here --->  FLORIDA!!!!!ALWAYS SUNNY SIDE UP!!!  (BYC Florida Members Page)
Pure Single Comb & Rose Comb Rhode Island Reds, Rose Comb Rhode Island Whites & Leghorns.

Member of the American Poultry Association, the Rhode Island Red Club of America, &

Central Florida Poultry Breeders Association. NPIP Certified Participant

Reply
post #9937 of 11637

Fred, after someone has bred a particular breed for some time, does that line tend to have sort of a look or physical stamp on them in a way where you can go to a show and say, "That must be one of so and so's birds, they are known for that head, that size, that type of feathering, etc."?  And, does that stamp of the breeder tend to carry on if the new breeder has the same focus or do each of us put our own stamp on the line...sort of muddying the waters, so to speak?  I'd think that would be inevitable over time, as you've explained. 

 

I'm wondering if there are certain traits that are so strong that they get carried forth no matter who touches the line along the way unless someone deliberately tries to breed that trait out of the line.  If so, could you give us some examples of some strong traits that tend to pop up in certain breeds that most breeders will try to retain if they get their hands on that line of birds? 

 
A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.  Proverbs 12:10
 
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A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.  Proverbs 12:10
 
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post #9938 of 11637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beekissed View Post
 

Fred, after someone has bred a particular breed for some time, does that line tend to have sort of a look or physical stamp on them in a way where you can go to a show and say, "That must be one of so and so's birds, they are known for that head, that size, that type of feathering, etc."?  And, does that stamp of the breeder tend to carry on if the new breeder has the same focus or do each of us put our own stamp on the line...sort of muddying the waters, so to speak?  I'd think that would be inevitable over time, as you've explained. 

 

I'm wondering if there are certain traits that are so strong that they get carried forth no matter who touches the line along the way unless someone deliberately tries to breed that trait out of the line.  If so, could you give us some examples of some strong traits that tend to pop up in certain breeds that most breeders will try to retain if they get their hands on that line of birds? 

Those are great questions, Id be interested to see the response.

I am a wife and Mother. We have 2 dogs, and our always growing flock of chickens. The kids have a small super cute flock of pet Silkies. Then we have mostly Cream Legbar amoung a wonderful assortment of laying hens.
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I am a wife and Mother. We have 2 dogs, and our always growing flock of chickens. The kids have a small super cute flock of pet Silkies. Then we have mostly Cream Legbar amoung a wonderful assortment of laying hens.
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post #9939 of 11637


I am gonna "answer" your questions this way and it may not be the way you might expect.

 

I am a HUGE supporter of the breed conservancy/ heritage conservancy movement.  I commit a lot of time to those causes and do teaching, "show and tells" and so forth to support the efforts.  I put my money where my mouth is and only feed so-called heritage birds on my homestead.  Period.  All that said just to be clear.

 

But let us all be clear what "preserving" "heritage birds" is all about.  You cannot "preserve" a breed unless you actually breed.  Sounds funny for me to say, no?  You'd be surprised how many people who do not breed birds think that somehow they are "preserving" breeds by just keeping them in a coop out back.  Ah…. no.

 

Second, after understanding you must actually BREED these "heritage" birds, you are required, as stated in the mission statements of the various breed conservatories, breed them to the Standard of Perfection established for the breed.  We can only preserve a breed if we breed it to the Standard.  Propigation is not breeding to the Standard and preserves little to nothing.  You can only preserve a breed by making good and sure that the offspring are actually representative, highly representative of the actual breed.  Golly, I hope this makes sense.   Yes, there were and still are some breeders that made the breed their own, so to speak, to such a magnificent degree that good poultry folks can spot those birds a mile away and pick them out of a crowd.  That kind of talent is rare and heaven sent gift.

 

If our pens are spiralling downward year after year and we're not culling properly and simply unaware of the faults that are taking over the birds in our barns, then we're "preserving" nothing.  When we faithfully and intelligently do these magnificent birds justice, then we can take proper satisfaction that we did the breed well while they were on our watch.  It's not about trophies.  It's not about politics or marketing or "names" or anything else.  It's about the breed.  

 

OK, that's it. The sometime preacher in me needs to hush now and go back under my rock for a week or month or so.  Hope it all helps in some small way.  Bless you all.

 

 

Practicing Sustainable Agriculture At The 45th Parallel

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post #9940 of 11637

I'll give a huge AMEN to that!  :D  That's what I wanted to know and THEN some.  Great post!  :thumbsup  Should be a sticky somewhere, that's for sure....there's an article in there somewhere.  Can't tell you how many times I've read about someone wanting to get heritage breeds to conserve the breed, but they have no idea what that entails...they just want to be able to say they are doing it. 

 

Don't know that I'll ever make a mark on any line, but I am well aware that I'm standing on the shoulders of some hard working, incredibly dedicated breeders when it comes to WRs and the bird I've been gifted....I'm just teetering there hoping I don't mess it up.  That's the most I can hope for right now...just to do no harm and do little tweaks internally all the while. 

 
A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.  Proverbs 12:10
 
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A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.  Proverbs 12:10
 
Reply
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