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Paint Silkies ~ European Lines - Page 19

post #181 of 213
12/1/11 at 5:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSilkie 

Brody's Broodello :

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSilkie 


The Euro paints are until now "trouble childeren", this for many reasons is maybe why they are still not officiallty recognized in Holland (the country where they where created).


Please explain? I think Any info that could be passed on would be helpful, possibly to stop some of the pitfalls from happening in the breeding programs in the U S!


I not want to bring in discredit European paint breeders but you showed here in this post yet several little troubles (light toes, spread out legs, light eyes, bad wings, brassy glow ...) I not know how the US paints where made but in Europe they where bred very close to inbreed. It is correct the origine lays at a cross Leghorn (Dominant White) X Silkie (Dominant Black). The Dominant White takes over more and more the black spots (Paint should have a spotting pattern of large un-pigmented areas and normally pigmented patches (here black) the partitioning should be 2/3 white and 1/3 black, this alternating color pattern must be irregular and asymmetrical). The history is also a little related to the origine of the Exchequer Leghorns ! Maybe this can give a clue for their genetic make-up !


Thanks, the Euro paints in the USA are from am importation from Holland. The American Paint is a domestic program and was "popout" from an american dominant white silkie, so they are from two complete different orgins.

Home to Bearded Silkies (Black, Blue,Splash,White,Partridge,Isabel Porcelain & Lavender) BLR Wyandottes, Bantam Columbian,Silverlaced & Dunlaced Wyandottes, White, Grey & Snowy Call Ducks, Standard Magpie Ducks & Sebastopol Geese. Babydoll Southdown Sheep, Black & Traditional Boer Goats
NPIP Certified Flock  # MD-507
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Home to Bearded Silkies (Black, Blue,Splash,White,Partridge,Isabel Porcelain & Lavender) BLR Wyandottes, Bantam Columbian,Silverlaced & Dunlaced Wyandottes, White, Grey & Snowy Call Ducks, Standard Magpie Ducks & Sebastopol Geese. Babydoll Southdown Sheep, Black & Traditional Boer Goats
NPIP Certified Flock  # MD-507
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post #182 of 213
12/1/11 at 8:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSilkie 

Brody's Broodello :

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSilkie 


The Euro paints are until now "trouble childeren", this for many reasons is maybe why they are still not officiallty recognized in Holland (the country where they where created).


Please explain? I think Any info that could be passed on would be helpful, possibly to stop some of the pitfalls from happening in the breeding programs in the U S!


I not want to bring in discredit European paint breeders but you showed here in this post yet several little troubles (light toes, spread out legs, light eyes, bad wings, brassy glow ...) I not know how the US paints where made but in Europe they where bred very close to inbreed. It is correct the origine lays at a cross Leghorn (Dominant White) X Silkie (Dominant Black). The Dominant White takes over more and more the black spots (Paint should have a spotting pattern of large un-pigmented areas and normally pigmented patches (here black) the partitioning should be 2/3 white and 1/3 black, this alternating color pattern must be irregular and asymmetrical). The history is also a little related to the origine of the Exchequer Leghorns ! Maybe this can give a clue for their genetic make-up !


I've asked this at The Coop, and exchequer is in part a variation on mottling, so that kind of rules it out as a genotype of paint as mottling is recessive, and therefore you would not get any F1 paints by crossing a paint to a non-paint.

Breeder & Exhibitor of fine silkies in Black, Blue, Splash, Grey, Partridge & Lavender.  Working on Dun, Mottled, Partridge dilutions, Paint, Porcelain & other exciting new colours
adult and started pairs occasionally available;   No eggs or chicks. 
Support your local poultry clubs, breed clubs, ABA & APA!

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Breeder & Exhibitor of fine silkies in Black, Blue, Splash, Grey, Partridge & Lavender.  Working on Dun, Mottled, Partridge dilutions, Paint, Porcelain & other exciting new colours
adult and started pairs occasionally available;   No eggs or chicks. 
Support your local poultry clubs, breed clubs, ABA & APA!

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post #183 of 213
12/1/11 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonoran Silkies 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSilkie 

Brody's Broodello :


Please explain? I think Any info that could be passed on would be helpful, possibly to stop some of the pitfalls from happening in the breeding programs in the U S!


I not want to bring in discredit European paint breeders but you showed here in this post yet several little troubles (light toes, spread out legs, light eyes, bad wings, brassy glow ...) I not know how the US paints where made but in Europe they where bred very close to inbreed. It is correct the origine lays at a cross Leghorn (Dominant White) X Silkie (Dominant Black). The Dominant White takes over more and more the black spots (Paint should have a spotting pattern of large un-pigmented areas and normally pigmented patches (here black) the partitioning should be 2/3 white and 1/3 black, this alternating color pattern must be irregular and asymmetrical). The history is also a little related to the origine of the Exchequer Leghorns ! Maybe this can give a clue for their genetic make-up !


I've asked this at The Coop, and exchequer is in part a variation on mottling, so that kind of rules it out as a genotype of paint as mottling is recessive, and therefore you would not get any F1 paints by crossing a paint to a non-paint.


Yes exactelly. The Exchequer origine from a cross between a White Livorno X Black white spotted Ancona (E/E with mo/mo). In this way the gene mo/mo entered in the Dominant White Livorno's but "white spots" are impossible to be seen on a complete white chicken ! Now the theory go's on .... White Livorno (with the unvisible mo/mo gene) crossed with the Black Silkie ....

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post #184 of 213
12/1/11 at 6:06pm
Thread Starter 

I have not gone back and read all the posts lately BUT I started with Euro paints and crossed them to blacks. The fast turn around amazed me with the F1s taking on larger crests, better toes while keeping the darker smaller combs of the euros. I also had some paints from America and bred them to blacks. At the point I got into this they were all quite inbred but I have lost the extra toes, toe nails, single RED combs very easily. Now to maintain this is another generation or two needing to be followed and docuement. At this point I see NO DIFFERENCE in the crosses. My flock is quite BLENDED NOW. The off color appeared in both lines no more or less with one line or the other. I have crossed in many different directions and am completely AMAZED at this paint EFFECT what ever it may be. I find it exciting to be seeing this unfold. I have been told that paints of Europe have not been worked on nearly as much as we have been working with them here. I think of my flock as Pilgrims...they came across the big POND and now have met up with the Native Americans and are one new family! Pioneerswink We need to enjoy them for what they are....a new challenge in silkie varieties. Keep good records and be honest about what we breed.



http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/39064_100_3150.jpg

Enjoying breeding and raising quality silkies meeting ABA and APA standards! Working with several AOV varieties working towards those standards.
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Enjoying breeding and raising quality silkies meeting ABA and APA standards! Working with several AOV varieties working towards those standards.
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post #185 of 213
12/1/11 at 6:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultra1classic 

April if you don't find you polish and want a replacement just yell...i'll hook you up


Thanks Bob not sure where the Polish went to, but then again, with all the birds here, they were might had packed there croups with feed and went thumbing rides down at the Union! lol

They did mention something about a guy on a harley going by with a silkie on back!

Home to Bearded Silkies (Black, Blue,Splash,White,Partridge,Isabel Porcelain & Lavender) BLR Wyandottes, Bantam Columbian,Silverlaced & Dunlaced Wyandottes, White, Grey & Snowy Call Ducks, Standard Magpie Ducks & Sebastopol Geese. Babydoll Southdown Sheep, Black & Traditional Boer Goats
NPIP Certified Flock  # MD-507
Reply
Home to Bearded Silkies (Black, Blue,Splash,White,Partridge,Isabel Porcelain & Lavender) BLR Wyandottes, Bantam Columbian,Silverlaced & Dunlaced Wyandottes, White, Grey & Snowy Call Ducks, Standard Magpie Ducks & Sebastopol Geese. Babydoll Southdown Sheep, Black & Traditional Boer Goats
NPIP Certified Flock  # MD-507
Reply
post #186 of 213
12/1/11 at 7:59pm

Beautiful boy, Bren!!  love

http://threecedarsilkies.webs.com/

 

NPIP certified

Member APA, ABA, ASBC

Raising exhibition silkies in black, white, blue, splash and American Paint

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http://threecedarsilkies.webs.com/

 

NPIP certified

Member APA, ABA, ASBC

Raising exhibition silkies in black, white, blue, splash and American Paint

Reply
post #187 of 213
12/1/11 at 8:06pm

The only thing that can be said about this bird is "SO BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"thumbsup  Just happy to get to see a picture of him!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by brenTx 

I have not gone back and read all the posts lately BUT I started with Euro paints and crossed them to blacks. The fast turn around amazed me with the F1s taking on larger crests, better toes while keeping the darker smaller combs of the euros. I also had some paints from America and bred them to blacks. At the point I got into this they were all quite inbred but I have lost the extra toes, toe nails, single RED combs very easily. Now to maintain this is another generation or two needing to be followed and docuement. At this point I see NO DIFFERENCE in the crosses. My flock is quite BLENDED NOW. The off color appeared in both lines no more or less with one line or the other. I have crossed in many different directions and am completely AMAZED at this paint EFFECT what ever it may be. I find it exciting to be seeing this unfold. I have been told that paints of Europe have not been worked on nearly as much as we have been working with them here. I think of my flock as Pilgrims...they came across the big POND and now have met up with the Native Americans and are one new family! Pioneerswink We need to enjoy them for what they are....a new challenge in silkie varieties. Keep good records and be honest about what we breed.



http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/39064_100_3150.jpg

 

 

I now have 3 Silkie hens & 1 Silkie Rooster!!  We also have 4 dogs, 2 cats all rescued, a 55 gallon aquarium.

 

Wondering who was the first person to think 'hmm, that hen has just had a weird looking poop. wonder what it tastes like?'

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I now have 3 Silkie hens & 1 Silkie Rooster!!  We also have 4 dogs, 2 cats all rescued, a 55 gallon aquarium.

 

Wondering who was the first person to think 'hmm, that hen has just had a weird looking poop. wonder what it tastes like?'

Reply
post #188 of 213
12/1/11 at 8:06pm
Thread Starter 

THANKS...he is holding his color pretty well so far. I am pleased with him.

Enjoying breeding and raising quality silkies meeting ABA and APA standards! Working with several AOV varieties working towards those standards.
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Enjoying breeding and raising quality silkies meeting ABA and APA standards! Working with several AOV varieties working towards those standards.
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post #189 of 213
12/1/11 at 8:09pm

Have you bred paints back to the blacks that have came from the paint breedings ? If so what was the results? Or is this a no no
Karen

RedWillow's Fluff &Stuff: Silkies ,Showgirls, and those wild and wonderful Polish .You just gotta love them !
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RedWillow's Fluff &Stuff: Silkies ,Showgirls, and those wild and wonderful Polish .You just gotta love them !
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post #190 of 213
12/1/11 at 8:13pm
Thread Starter 

No I haven't. It needs to be tried but I haven't liked ANY of the blacks I have hatched. MOST have pigment holes in their legs,toes or feet so that doesn't make for a very appealing BLACK silkie. Not that that should stop me from trying but I have hatched so many I have kept the BEST and the blacks haven't been in that yet. Whites off paints have been another issue. I have four right now I just love. They do appear to produce paints although showing up as pure white. One is a hen and the other three I have kept are still young. I bred the white hen to blacks...got paints...bred her to paints and got paints....bred her to another all white paint and got paints. That was just ONE hen so who knows for sure. If I have to follow this 100 rule...I won't live long enough. wink


Edited by brenTx - 12/1/11 at 8:15pm
Enjoying breeding and raising quality silkies meeting ABA and APA standards! Working with several AOV varieties working towards those standards.
Reply
Enjoying breeding and raising quality silkies meeting ABA and APA standards! Working with several AOV varieties working towards those standards.
Reply
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