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post #121 of 130
2/13/11 at 8:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scbatz33 
Quote:
Originally Posted by redhen 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ga Chicken Mom 

I don't know what my friend does about her taxes, isn't any of my business but she gets checks that must be deposited into her bank account. I stand by my claim, she rarely breaks even on her pups. She breeds one, maybe two litters a year. The last litter she had 8 pups, she will keep 2 or 3 to grow up and show. 5 were sold on limited registration as pet quality. She feeds Orijen puppy food which is very pricey, ear crops cost $500 + per pup - she uses the best vet on the East Coast. Please don't start a rant about ear crops. She gets mouth xrays of her show pups to check for missing adult teeth. We just got back from cropping - I help with the pups, they are kept meticulously clean. She enters and travels to dog shows at least once a month. She keeps her finished b***h champions until they die, one is 12 1/2 yrs. Breeding age is at least 2 yrs. No breeding less than 1 yr apart and she rarely breeds the same girl more than twice.There are 10 Dobes in her house of varying ages, they all get extra premium food, vet care and the run of her house. Her previous litter the b***h had an injury, she was taken to a university vet hospital and stayed for 10 days. Her bill was $4000+. She delivered 3 pups when 2 of the 3 were sold as pets my friend had twice as much invested as she got back on the sale. For those of you that say you know people who make lots of money selling pups, how does my friends care of her dogs compare to those people?


Well..taking your dog to the vets and keeping them for life and feeding them. lol ... is normal dog care.... that doesnt count.
So.. $500 for ear cropping... and a few bucks for vaccines, per pup...
If she sells her pups for $1,500 Or MORE each... (which i'm sure she does)
I'd say shes still making a profit... but shes then using THAT profit to maintain her other dogs.... and calling it breeding costs...
Just my opinion...


It maybe "normal" if you  aren't in a "business" of breeding and selling dogs. Once you are considering it a BUSINESS all feed, vet, and "normal" care is a business expense.

The problem here is your perspective of what should and should not be included in cost analysis is off base.


I could say ths same for you.. wink

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I prefer an ugly truth to a pretty lie. If someone is telling me the truth that is when i will give my heart. ~ Jack Nicholson 

Look! A ladder!! Maybe it leads to heaven, or a sandwich... 

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post #122 of 130
2/13/11 at 9:47am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Hills Farm 

Does my female look like a pure saint?


I don't know because I don't have Saints, but it seems to me that if you are interested in breeding, your FIRST step should be to read the breed standard.  You can find a copy on the AKC site.  You need to know and understand the standard if only to learn what other Saint breeders consider to be the perfect dog.  Those breeders are the ones who got together to write that standard.  It's not something the AKC made up.  Breeding is ultimately about creating the dog that matches his standard perfectly.  It is NOT just about buying a male and a female and making more puppies that sorta look like Saints.  The whole goal is improving your breed with every litter. 

One of the best ways to learn about your breed is to join the national breed club and meet folks who share your love of Saints.  Sure, you'll find some snobs.  But you will also find people who care deeply about the breed and doing what is best for it.  And you will gain access to their years and years of experience.


JMO, as always.  (BTW I competed in schutzhund with Dobies and GSDs since the early 80s.)


Rusty


I have read the breed standard with akc several times when I bought Symphony. Not many saint owners close to me. I am in a pretty rural area. I do email some breeders that help me....one breeder actually help me with questions and pics of Symphony when I was getting her. That breeder was not a breeder anymore but she had been for twenty some years and showed.

Good work is not cheap and cheap work is not good.

She felt he loved her the most when it seemed to him she loved him the least.

Nothing good comes easy....and nothing that comes easy is good.
Good things don't end......unless they end badly!
I have been called worse-by better!

Reply

Good work is not cheap and cheap work is not good.

She felt he loved her the most when it seemed to him she loved him the least.

Nothing good comes easy....and nothing that comes easy is good.
Good things don't end......unless they end badly!
I have been called worse-by better!

Reply
post #123 of 130
2/13/11 at 9:58am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bagendhens 

OP, honestly given that your hoping to one day breed and show id suggest looking into a breeder that shows...having a good idea of the dogs bloodlines is very important.
youll also want at the MINIMUM OFA on both the sire and the dam, id also personally want to know as much as humanly possible about the grand parents and as far back as possible.
if your planning on breeding and showing you want the best of the best.

id give this breeder you found a miss, it sounds like their just selling/breeding for the sake of, registering the male isnt that expensive and doesnt have to increase puppy prices (a peice of paper doesnt increase or decrease the price, showing costs and genetic testing however might), and the AKC isnt going to register a dog from an unregisterd sire and a continental registered dam...
so honestly i wouldnt trust this person, sounds like there just making excuses/trying to talk you into it...
and honestly, it doesnt sound like you are all that convinced either so id keep looking.

a dog, especially a potential show/breeding dog is a lifelong investment and you want to invest in the best animal possible to "fit" your needs, if those needs are aKC registerable with breeding rights, you need to find a breeder with akc registered dogs (or compatible registry if your importing from canada/europe ect...) a breeder who has history on her breeding dogs, and a breeder who does the apropriate genetic testing thats also willing to give you full breeding rights, which will mean in terms of a GOOD breeder, proving to that breeder that you are also dedicating to preserving and bettering the breed.

personally im not an AKC fan, they support puppymills and pet shops and that doesnt sit right with me...
i also dont feel a dog HAS to be a show dog to be a great dog in all aspects...
i do however support small scale breeders, genetic testing and good bloodlines that are proven in their feild and fit the breed standard closly.
i personally would never want to buy a puppy from a kennel set up, i dont belive a breeder who has hundereds of puppies a year is going to have enough time to socilize my potential new family member to the level id like.
i like puppies raised in a family setting, exposed to the sound of the tv and children and pots and pans and vacume cleaners, and people handling them and playing with them all day when there not sleeping...pups that are already started on leahs training, sit and down, housebreaking ect...

thats just my personal preference and how i raise my pups...

good luck on your puppy search and dont "settle"  if it doesnt feel right...its NOT right!


I will make sure this time the dam and sires hips have been tested. I doubt the owner of the pups I am looking at did that either. They said Friday night when I first talked to them that they did not want to register cause they did not want them breed. So they were selling them unregistered to good pet homes. I am thinking so people are still gonna breed them though? So now there will be a bunch of unregistered pups out there.

I am gonna be more picky on what male saint I get for sure. I want the parents hips checked. I also had an issue with my female saints dewclaws, come to find out the breeders were doing them themselves. There is one less expense for breeders, if you do it yourself, half azz.

Both of Symphony's parents lines have champion show lines.

Good work is not cheap and cheap work is not good.

She felt he loved her the most when it seemed to him she loved him the least.

Nothing good comes easy....and nothing that comes easy is good.
Good things don't end......unless they end badly!
I have been called worse-by better!

Reply

Good work is not cheap and cheap work is not good.

She felt he loved her the most when it seemed to him she loved him the least.

Nothing good comes easy....and nothing that comes easy is good.
Good things don't end......unless they end badly!
I have been called worse-by better!

Reply
post #124 of 130
2/13/11 at 12:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by arabianequine 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bagendhens 

OP, honestly given that your hoping to one day breed and show id suggest looking into a breeder that shows...having a good idea of the dogs bloodlines is very important.
youll also want at the MINIMUM OFA on both the sire and the dam, id also personally want to know as much as humanly possible about the grand parents and as far back as possible.
if your planning on breeding and showing you want the best of the best.

id give this breeder you found a miss, it sounds like their just selling/breeding for the sake of, registering the male isnt that expensive and doesnt have to increase puppy prices (a peice of paper doesnt increase or decrease the price, showing costs and genetic testing however might), and the AKC isnt going to register a dog from an unregisterd sire and a continental registered dam...
so honestly i wouldnt trust this person, sounds like there just making excuses/trying to talk you into it...
and honestly, it doesnt sound like you are all that convinced either so id keep looking.

a dog, especially a potential show/breeding dog is a lifelong investment and you want to invest in the best animal possible to "fit" your needs, if those needs are aKC registerable with breeding rights, you need to find a breeder with akc registered dogs (or compatible registry if your importing from canada/europe ect...) a breeder who has history on her breeding dogs, and a breeder who does the apropriate genetic testing thats also willing to give you full breeding rights, which will mean in terms of a GOOD breeder, proving to that breeder that you are also dedicating to preserving and bettering the breed.

personally im not an AKC fan, they support puppymills and pet shops and that doesnt sit right with me...
i also dont feel a dog HAS to be a show dog to be a great dog in all aspects...
i do however support small scale breeders, genetic testing and good bloodlines that are proven in their feild and fit the breed standard closly.
i personally would never want to buy a puppy from a kennel set up, i dont belive a breeder who has hundereds of puppies a year is going to have enough time to socilize my potential new family member to the level id like.
i like puppies raised in a family setting, exposed to the sound of the tv and children and pots and pans and vacume cleaners, and people handling them and playing with them all day when there not sleeping...pups that are already started on leahs training, sit and down, housebreaking ect...

thats just my personal preference and how i raise my pups...

good luck on your puppy search and dont "settle"  if it doesnt feel right...its NOT right!


I will make sure this time the dam and sires hips have been tested. I doubt the owner of the pups I am looking at did that either. They said Friday night when I first talked to them that they did not want to register cause they did not want them breed. So they were selling them unregistered to good pet homes. I am thinking so people are still gonna breed them though? So now there will be a bunch of unregistered pups out there.

I am gonna be more picky on what male saint I get for sure. I want the parents hips checked. I also had an issue with my female saints dewclaws, come to find out the breeders were doing them themselves. There is one less expense for breeders, if you do it yourself, half azz.

Both of Symphony's parents lines have champion show lines.


When we got our Min Pin we had her dewclaws removed when she was spayed. Wish we hadn't. Apparently removing the front dewclaws can actually weaken the dogs wrists (back dewclaws are normally attatched by only skin). So its better to keep them if the dog is going to be doing agility, or lots of jumping etc.  http://jandemellobordercollie.com/DewClaws.htm  If you work on getting your dogs used to trimming nails, handling feet/toes, etc. it's not a problem to keep them trimmed.

Good Luck with your search. smile

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Breeding & Exhibiting Quality Bearded Silkies
Sundown Silkies Website
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PM or email if your interested in birds/eggs.

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post #125 of 130
2/13/11 at 1:00pm

I dont really see the point in removing front dewclaws in house dogs. There removed on hunting dogs and sled dogs to keep them from getting torn off later. Breeders that do it do usually do it there selves though. They even did it on a episode of dirty jobs.

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caf.gif Incubator Cam!!! pop.gif Pug Puppy Cam!

clap.gif How to play Harmonica
Homeland Security Plan 2Aold.gif

 

Project we are the plan.

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post #126 of 130
2/13/11 at 3:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SundownWaterfowl 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arabianequine 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bagendhens 

OP, honestly given that your hoping to one day breed and show id suggest looking into a breeder that shows...having a good idea of the dogs bloodlines is very important.
youll also want at the MINIMUM OFA on both the sire and the dam, id also personally want to know as much as humanly possible about the grand parents and as far back as possible.
if your planning on breeding and showing you want the best of the best.

id give this breeder you found a miss, it sounds like their just selling/breeding for the sake of, registering the male isnt that expensive and doesnt have to increase puppy prices (a peice of paper doesnt increase or decrease the price, showing costs and genetic testing however might), and the AKC isnt going to register a dog from an unregisterd sire and a continental registered dam...
so honestly i wouldnt trust this person, sounds like there just making excuses/trying to talk you into it...
and honestly, it doesnt sound like you are all that convinced either so id keep looking.

a dog, especially a potential show/breeding dog is a lifelong investment and you want to invest in the best animal possible to "fit" your needs, if those needs are aKC registerable with breeding rights, you need to find a breeder with akc registered dogs (or compatible registry if your importing from canada/europe ect...) a breeder who has history on her breeding dogs, and a breeder who does the apropriate genetic testing thats also willing to give you full breeding rights, which will mean in terms of a GOOD breeder, proving to that breeder that you are also dedicating to preserving and bettering the breed.

personally im not an AKC fan, they support puppymills and pet shops and that doesnt sit right with me...
i also dont feel a dog HAS to be a show dog to be a great dog in all aspects...
i do however support small scale breeders, genetic testing and good bloodlines that are proven in their feild and fit the breed standard closly.
i personally would never want to buy a puppy from a kennel set up, i dont belive a breeder who has hundereds of puppies a year is going to have enough time to socilize my potential new family member to the level id like.
i like puppies raised in a family setting, exposed to the sound of the tv and children and pots and pans and vacume cleaners, and people handling them and playing with them all day when there not sleeping...pups that are already started on leahs training, sit and down, housebreaking ect...

thats just my personal preference and how i raise my pups...

good luck on your puppy search and dont "settle"  if it doesnt feel right...its NOT right!


I will make sure this time the dam and sires hips have been tested. I doubt the owner of the pups I am looking at did that either. They said Friday night when I first talked to them that they did not want to register cause they did not want them breed. So they were selling them unregistered to good pet homes. I am thinking so people are still gonna breed them though? So now there will be a bunch of unregistered pups out there.

I am gonna be more picky on what male saint I get for sure. I want the parents hips checked. I also had an issue with my female saints dewclaws, come to find out the breeders were doing them themselves. There is one less expense for breeders, if you do it yourself, half azz.

Both of Symphony's parents lines have champion show lines.


When we got our Min Pin we had her dewclaws removed when she was spayed. Wish we hadn't. Apparently removing the front dewclaws can actually weaken the dogs wrists (back dewclaws are normally attatched by only skin). So its better to keep them if the dog is going to be doing agility, or lots of jumping etc.  http://jandemellobordercollie.com/DewClaws.htm  If you work on getting your dogs used to trimming nails, handling feet/toes, etc. it's not a problem to keep them trimmed.

Good Luck with your search. smile


Both of my female saints dew claws are gone....but feels slightly funny on compared to the left and right paw where they use to be not visually noticeable though. Both the rear grew back in urrgh.

Good work is not cheap and cheap work is not good.

She felt he loved her the most when it seemed to him she loved him the least.

Nothing good comes easy....and nothing that comes easy is good.
Good things don't end......unless they end badly!
I have been called worse-by better!

Reply

Good work is not cheap and cheap work is not good.

She felt he loved her the most when it seemed to him she loved him the least.

Nothing good comes easy....and nothing that comes easy is good.
Good things don't end......unless they end badly!
I have been called worse-by better!

Reply
post #127 of 130
2/13/11 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by arabianequine 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Hills Farm 

Does my female look like a pure saint?


I don't know because I don't have Saints, but it seems to me that if you are interested in breeding, your FIRST step should be to read the breed standard.  You can find a copy on the AKC site.  You need to know and understand the standard if only to learn what other Saint breeders consider to be the perfect dog.  Those breeders are the ones who got together to write that standard.  It's not something the AKC made up.  Breeding is ultimately about creating the dog that matches his standard perfectly.  It is NOT just about buying a male and a female and making more puppies that sorta look like Saints.  The whole goal is improving your breed with every litter. 

One of the best ways to learn about your breed is to join the national breed club and meet folks who share your love of Saints.  Sure, you'll find some snobs.  But you will also find people who care deeply about the breed and doing what is best for it.  And you will gain access to their years and years of experience.


JMO, as always.  (BTW I competed in schutzhund with Dobies and GSDs since the early 80s.)


Rusty


I have read the breed standard with akc several times when I bought Symphony. Not many saint owners close to me. I am in a pretty rural area. I do email some breeders that help me....one breeder actually help me with questions and pics of Symphony when I was getting her. That breeder was not a breeder anymore but she had been for twenty some years and showed.


With my GSDs I was very lucky because there are illustrated standards available online.  Taught me a lot.  Actually there is a lot of good information available online.  Like your area, here there are not many folks involved in schutzhund, so we had to actually "collect" a few to form our own training group.  It was worth the effort, though.  Most folks who have been at it awhile are a treasure-trove of really good information that they do seem willing to pass along.  This kind of mentoring can teach you so much.  Much of what I learned starting out came from a few fellow-Marines who were  k9 handlers. They taught me so much just because I was interested enough to ask questions and tag along whenever possible.

big_smile

Rusty

Rusty Hills Farm ... home of  AQHA  A Rusty Zipper and Buff Plymouth Rocks.

"Y'know the worst part about gettin' old? It's gettin' old!" Ben Johnson (My Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys)

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Rusty Hills Farm ... home of  AQHA  A Rusty Zipper and Buff Plymouth Rocks.

"Y'know the worst part about gettin' old? It's gettin' old!" Ben Johnson (My Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys)

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post #128 of 130
2/13/11 at 9:06pm

Someone maybe already mentioned it, but you could probably get it registered with the Purebred Alternative Listing/Indefinite Listing. If you're wanting to do conformation, that won't help you much, but you could do all of the companion/performance events then.

http://www.akc.org/reg/ilpex.cfm

Also, if you were wanting to breed and stuff like that...that may not help you, either.

Hope you figure out what to do! smile

Sorry if my post is now irrelevant to the discussion and someone has already gone over everything I've said - I didn't have time to read through all the posts. smile


Edited by wordgirl - 2/14/11 at 2:04pm

The first of 11 kids in the bestest family in the world!

The Dogs: Tipper (black Lab/Cocker) and Boaz (yellow Labrador Retriever)

The Cats: Trixxie (tortoiseshell) and Pumpkin (snow shoe)

The Ducks: Anconas in black, chocolate, and lavender: Mr. Darcy, Mr. Bingley, Lizzy, Jane

 

"I can do all things through Him Who strengthens me." ~ Phil. 4:13

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The first of 11 kids in the bestest family in the world!

The Dogs: Tipper (black Lab/Cocker) and Boaz (yellow Labrador Retriever)

The Cats: Trixxie (tortoiseshell) and Pumpkin (snow shoe)

The Ducks: Anconas in black, chocolate, and lavender: Mr. Darcy, Mr. Bingley, Lizzy, Jane

 

"I can do all things through Him Who strengthens me." ~ Phil. 4:13

Reply
post #129 of 130
2/13/11 at 9:55pm
Thread Starter 

Its irrelevant kind of, since I am not getting one of those puppies. Still good info though. I was gonna call again today on the puppies and I have decided not too. I will keep looking. Thank you for everyones help.

Good work is not cheap and cheap work is not good.

She felt he loved her the most when it seemed to him she loved him the least.

Nothing good comes easy....and nothing that comes easy is good.
Good things don't end......unless they end badly!
I have been called worse-by better!

Reply

Good work is not cheap and cheap work is not good.

She felt he loved her the most when it seemed to him she loved him the least.

Nothing good comes easy....and nothing that comes easy is good.
Good things don't end......unless they end badly!
I have been called worse-by better!

Reply
post #130 of 130
2/14/11 at 2:26am

I remove dewclaws on poodles, because sometimes they can get lost and forgotten in the long hair, grow in a circle and grow back into the pad, or at the very least, get really long and snag on knit fabric and ruin sweaters, afghans, and sometimes hang up as they jump off the sofa and make them land badly. I have heard horror stories you would not believe on dewclaws on poodles that grew too long.

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BackYard Chickens › BYC Forum › Miscellaneous › Other Pets & Livestock › Getting a puppy AKC registered?