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post #31 of 46
5/17/12 at 2:00pm

This is what Ziggity has to say:
http://www.ziggity.com/pdf/cont/cont_document_pdf_pdf_93.pdf/Broiler_Applications.pdf
 
"Day 1 – Week 1  Adjust column pressure setting to the absolute minimum. (No greater than  2 in./5 cm) Do not change this setting even if the litter is totally dry."
 
Also from Ziggity:
 

"Virtually all manufacturers of nipple-type drinkers without catch cups recommend minimum pressure settings for day-old chicks. Most manufacturers recommend settings below 10 cm to start, while Ziggity Systems recommends only 2.5 to 5 cm (1 to 2 inches) of column height pressure in order to ensure dry litter from the very start."

 

 

Quote:

I disagree.  Each nipple has a small ball sitting on machined seat, as long as there is no sediment holding the ball open higher pressures make the ball seat better.

 

Pray tell how?

 

Because there is greater water pressure behind it.  It's like a detent ball with a heavier spring behind it, except unlike a spring once the ball is unseated it is free to move in the water, but it takes a greater amount of force to unseat it to begin with.  When the birds are pecking at the line, the entire line vibrates and can cause other nipples to leak a little due to the balls coming unseated.  At very low pressures the balls are more likely to come unseated and drip a little.

 

 

https://utextension.tennessee.edu/publications/Documents/pb1533.pdf

 

"Keep water pressure low when chicks are young so that water will flow easily from the nipple when it gets activated by the lightest touch."

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post #32 of 46
5/17/12 at 3:20pm

It is gravity. Nothing more.

 

Unless a spring is used then it is the force exerted by kinetic energy.

 

Water pressure can cause a better seating if plastic materials are pressed against an unyielding surface.

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post #33 of 46
5/17/12 at 6:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenJerk View Post

It is gravity. Nothing more.

 

Unless a spring is used then it is the force exerted by kinetic energy.

 

Water pressure can cause a better seating if plastic materials are pressed against an unyielding surface.

If it is gravity that seats them then its know wounder they leak. 

I think I'll stick to the spring loaded ones, at least then I know that there built good/right.

 

 

Chris

 

NPIP # 31-516
Society for the Preservation of Poultry Antiquities http://sppa.webs.com/

Breeding Large Fowl Single and Rose Comb Rhode Island Reds to APA Standard


"I know of no pursuit in which more real and important services can be rendered to any country than by improving its agriculture, its breed of useful animals, and other branches of a husbandman's cares." – 

George Washington

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NPIP # 31-516
Society for the Preservation of Poultry Antiquities http://sppa.webs.com/

Breeding Large Fowl Single and Rose Comb Rhode Island Reds to APA Standard


"I know of no pursuit in which more real and important services can be rendered to any country than by improving its agriculture, its breed of useful animals, and other branches of a husbandman's cares." – 

George Washington

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post #34 of 46
5/18/12 at 5:16am

I have a great trust in gravity.

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post #35 of 46
5/18/12 at 11:26am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenJerk View Post

I have a great trust in gravity.

 

It's not just a good idea, IT'S THE LAW.

 

 

:)

 

 

Thanks to the pros for weighing in -- you guys have a lot of experience in this.  

 

My single data point is that the higher I turn up that little regulator, the more spray / drip / mess there is .... And the nipples do leak on their own, just a tiny drip forming at the end and eventually dropping.   Due to how I have the thing plumbed, I have to keep the water pressure high enough to overcome gravity and that makes them leak a bit.   But not too bad, and certainly much less messier than when I had a manual water feeder/trough in the run.

 

-m

http://city.yolktal.es
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post #36 of 46
5/18/12 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenJerk View Post

It is gravity. Nothing more.

 

There is water pressure on the watering line that is exerted across the entire interior, including the balls that are sealing the nipple/valves.  The higher the pressure the more force it takes to unseat the ball.  When I have high pressure on the watering lines to flush them even our full grown hens have trouble operating them.

 

This line of conversation isn't doing much to help though.  

 

The very basics: watering lines need to be at the proper height and pressure to keep the birds from making a mess.  The birds should lift their breasts and peck at the nipple at an upward angle.  If they are pecking from the side more water is going to go on the floor.  The water pressure determines how much water is going to flow when the nipple is triggered.  Too high of a water pressure and the birds get "more than a beak full" with the excess going on the ground.  Too little pressure and they may not be able to drink enough.  The exact pressure required varies by nipple manufacturer and the flow rate of the nipple, the age of the birds, and the weather.  They generally recommend adjusting the pressure so that the litter beneath the waterers is neither too wet, nor too dry.

 

If nipples are actually leaking, then there may be sediment or other deposits in the line.  We run a water filter ahead of our closed watering system as suggested by the manufacturer.  Our lines also have the capability of being flushed under high pressure to remove sediments and bio-films that may accumulate in the lines.  Using a bucket as a water source increases the chance that debris will enter the lines.  Lastly, some nipples are just of poorer quality than others and may be prone to dripping a bit more.

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post #37 of 46
5/20/12 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac in Wisco View Post

 

 

 

The very basics: watering lines need to be at the proper height and pressure to keep the birds from making a mess.  The birds should lift their breasts and peck at the nipple at an upward angle.  If they are pecking from the side more water is going to go on the floor.  The water pressure determines how much water is going to flow when the nipple is triggered.  Too high of a water pressure and the birds get "more than a beak full" with the excess going on the ground.  Too little pressure and they may not be able to drink enough.  The exact pressure required varies by nipple manufacturer and the flow rate of the nipple, the age of the birds, and the weather.  They generally recommend adjusting the pressure so that the litter beneath the waterers is neither too wet, nor too dry.

 

If nipples are actually leaking, then there may be sediment or other deposits in the line.  We run a water filter ahead of our closed watering system as suggested by the manufacturer.  Our lines also have the capability of being flushed under high pressure to remove sediments and bio-films that may accumulate in the lines.  Using a bucket as a water source increases the chance that debris will enter the lines.  Lastly, some nipples are just of poorer quality than others and may be prone to dripping a bit more.

 

ALL OF THIS IS SPOT-ON ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!

 

There is water pressure on the watering line that is exerted across the entire interior, including the balls that are sealing the nipple/valves.

The higher the pressure the more force it takes to unseat the ball.  When I have high pressure on the watering lines to flush them even our full grown hens have trouble operating them.

 

SO YOU ARE SAYING THAT WE HAVE BEEN SUCKED IN BY ALL THAT CRAP THAT ARCHIMEDES OF SYRACUSE AND SIR ISSAC NEWTON LAYED ON US IN 212 BC AND 1667 AD RESPECTIVELY. 

 

This line of conversation isn't doing much to help though.

 

ESPECIALLY WHEN PORTIONS OF IT ARE IRRECONCILABLE WITH THE LAWS OF PHYSICS.

 

AGREED - DISREGARD FOR THE LAWS OF PHYSICS WILL GET YOU NOWHERE ON THIS PLANET.

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post #38 of 46
5/20/12 at 1:18pm

Oh yeah - one other thing Mac.

The paper you cited from the U of TN is twenty years old and refers to drinkers with flexible rubber or plastic seals. That was just about the time the industry abandoned them for for non compressible (under normal circumstances which include 1 PSI of pressure) stainless steel.

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post #39 of 46
5/20/12 at 2:22pm
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChickenJerk View Post

 

There is water pressure on the watering line that is exerted across the entire interior, including the balls that are sealing the nipple/valves.

The higher the pressure the more force it takes to unseat the ball.  When I have high pressure on the watering lines to flush them even our full grown hens have trouble operating them.

 

SO YOU ARE SAYING THAT WE HAVE BEEN SUCKED IN BY ALL THAT CRAP THAT ARCHIMEDES OF SYRACUSE AND SIR ISSAC NEWTON LAYED ON US IN 212 BC AND 1667 AD RESPECTIVELY. 

 

This line of conversation isn't doing much to help though.

 

ESPECIALLY WHEN PORTIONS OF IT ARE IRRECONCILABLE WITH THE LAWS OF PHYSICS.

 

AGREED - DISREGARD FOR THE LAWS OF PHYSICS WILL GET YOU NOWHERE ON THIS PLANET.

What part of gravity and pressure don't you understand ?

If you use a bucket for your supply the higher the bucket is the more force of gravity, so more pressure.

old.gif       improvise adapt and overcome   cool.pngcool.png   frow.gif

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old.gif       improvise adapt and overcome   cool.pngcool.png   frow.gif

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post #40 of 46
5/20/12 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemet dennis View Post

What part of gravity and pressure don't you understand ?

If you use a bucket for your supply the higher the bucket is the more force of gravity, so more pressure.

 You are 100% correct.

 

 

Chris


Edited by Chris09 - 5/20/12 at 2:41pm

 

NPIP # 31-516
Society for the Preservation of Poultry Antiquities http://sppa.webs.com/

Breeding Large Fowl Single and Rose Comb Rhode Island Reds to APA Standard


"I know of no pursuit in which more real and important services can be rendered to any country than by improving its agriculture, its breed of useful animals, and other branches of a husbandman's cares." – 

George Washington

Reply

 

NPIP # 31-516
Society for the Preservation of Poultry Antiquities http://sppa.webs.com/

Breeding Large Fowl Single and Rose Comb Rhode Island Reds to APA Standard


"I know of no pursuit in which more real and important services can be rendered to any country than by improving its agriculture, its breed of useful animals, and other branches of a husbandman's cares." – 

George Washington

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