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# Pressure Regulator / Pressure Reducing Valve for nipple waterer - Page 5

Quote:

"Are you saying that it takes more force to lift  a measure of mass in the bottom of a pool than it does near the top of the pool? Are you saying tat a rock is less buoyant in shallow water than it is in deep water. "

"SO YOU ARE SAYING THAT WE HAVE BEEN SUCKED IN BY ALL THAT CRAP THAT ARCHIMEDES OF SYRACUSE AND SIR ISSAC NEWTON LAYED ON US IN 212 BC AND 1667 AD RESPECTIVELY. "

The ball is not completely surrounded by water.  The forces on the ball include gravity, the weight of the water column (water pressure), and atmospheric pressure.  The portion of the ball that is sitting on the seat is exposed to atmospheric pressure with the weight of the water column behind it.  Increasing the water column increases the pressure difference and thus the force on the ball.  In fact, if you were to increase the pressure so that the force on the ball from water pressure was greater than the force of gravity you could turn the drinking line upside down and the ball would stay on its seat.

If you were to put a ball larger than the neck of a bottle inside a bottle and squeeze the bottle or otherwise pressurize the bottle what would happen?  The pressure behind the ball would seat it against the neck of the bottle.  Increasing pressure would increase the pressure of the ball against the neck of the bottle.  If the ball were compressible you could reach a pressure where you could drive the ball through the neck of bottle, uncorking it.

You are correct that the ball and the seat in a drinking line are incompressible.  With perfectly clean surfaces increasing the water pressure and thus the seating pressure of the ball does little to create a better seal.  If there is biofilm on the surfaces though (pretty common inside a watering line) then increased pressures may displace the biofilm or other matter from the sealing surfaces ensuring a better seal.  And, as I said earlier, increased seating pressures also keep the balls from being rattled loose from the birds pecking at or bumping into a watering line.

For others reading this, that's not to say you should should turn up the pressure to keep the nipples from leaking, you would actually create more of a mess (go back to my post on the basics).  We are just picking nits on physics here...

Here is the gist of what I was trying to say:

Somebody said that they need a pressure regulator to lower their water pressure because the high pressure causes their watering nipples to leak.  They didn't leak at lower pressures, but are now leaking at higher pressures.

The water on the floor is more likely from improper water line height and high water pressures causing the nipples to discharge too much water when the birds operate them rather the nipples leaking, because in my experience higher water pressures actually cause our nipples to leak less. If there is debris in the lines or poor quality nipples that are the cause of leaks, then the higher pressure may cause the nipple to leak more water, but higher water pressure is not going to cause an otherwise leak-free nipple to start leaking.  That person does need to lower their water pressure, but for reasons that are less obvious to most.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac in Wisco

Here is the gist of what I was trying to say:

Somebody said that they need a pressure regulator to lower their water pressure because the high pressure causes their watering nipples to leak.  They didn't leak at lower pressures, but are now leaking at higher pressures.

The water on the floor is more likely from improper water line height and high water pressures causing the nipples to discharge too much water when the birds operate them rather the nipples leaking, because in my experience higher water pressures actually cause our nipples to leak less. If there is debris in the lines or poor quality nipples that are the cause of leaks, then the higher pressure may cause the nipple to leak more water, but higher water pressure is not going to cause an otherwise leak-free nipple to start leaking.  That person does need to lower their water pressure, but for reasons that are less obvious to most.

It sounds to me like the nipple is leaking at the threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemet dennis

It sounds to me like the nipple is leaking at the threads.

That's a possibility, but I think it's more likely that the nipples are discharging too much water.  We run our commercial watering lines at four to six inches of water column pressure.  When I first started using them I was just guessing at what would be appropriate and set them at ten inches of pressure.  The result was water everywhere under the waterers.  It was actually causing puddles.  At a column height equal to a five gallon bucket suspended somewhere above the watering line the nipples would probably be close to spraying water rather than dripping when triggered.  (For others' comparison when our watering lines are set to four to six inches of pressure, when I trigger the nipple with my finger I get drops rolling off my finger at a rate of about one to two drops per second.  That's my test to see if any specific nipple is working properly.  If it flows much less then it is probably clogged with hard water deposits).

Our 2500 birds drink about 125 gallons of water day.  Think about that...  If for every drop of water a bird drinks another goes on the floor, I'd have 125 gallons of water on the hen house floor everyday.

Edited by Mac in Wisco - 5/20/12 at 8:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac in Wisco

That's a possibility, but I think it's more likely that the nipples are discharging too much water.  We run our commercial watering lines at four to six inches of water column pressure.  When I first started using them I was just guessing at what would be appropriate and set them at ten inches of pressure.  The result was water everywhere under the waterers.  It was actually causing puddles.  At a column height equal to a five gallon bucket suspended somewhere above the watering line the nipples would probably be close to spraying water rather than dripping when triggered.  (For others' comparison when our watering lines are set to four to six inches of pressure, when I trigger the nipple with my finger I get drops rolling off my finger at a rate of about one to two drops per second.  That's my test to see if any specific nipple is working properly.  If it flows much less then it is probably clogged with hard water deposits).

Our 2500 birds drink about 125 gallons of water day.  Think about that...  If for every drop of water a bird drinks another goes on the floor, I'd have 125 gallons of water on the hen house floor everyday.

Yes they will put out to much water if the pressure is to high. But if he's looking at it dripping without a chicken drinking then it's probably leaking somewhere else and gravity is taking it to the end of the nipple.

Update :  Previously I had used garden hose to connect the two waterers (one inside, one outside) together.   The design flaw I had was the hose had to go up and over an obstacle with about 4 feet of rise.  This is what made me have to turn up the pressure too high so that the regulator could overpower gravity for those 4 feet.

Design v4.0:  Here I took my existing two waterers and changed out the 3/4" Hose down to 1/4" ID tubing.  This matches the output size of the regulator so i only have one size tubing in the system.    I then drilled a new hole so I could connect the system more or less at the same height.   Now I can run the regulator at a lower pressure and no dripping!

It's still not perfect yet!   The left hand side has those risers on the system, just as a place to strap it to the wall -- and to make it slightly height adjustable.    However they act as reservoirs.   So the right hand system still gets the added pressure of left hand side which makes it leak a tiny bit.

v4.1 : I'm adding a \$4 check valve between the two circuits.

Yes, this is over engineered and way more money than I should be spending on this, but it's fun and except for when I tinker with it, it's been 100% maintenance free.

EDIT: Per request here's the parts list for the above system :

 Quantity Price Description Store 2 .35 PVC 3/4" pipe ends Hardware 5' PVC 3/4" pipe Hardware 3 .75 Nylon 3/4 Slip F  to 1/2" pipe thread F adapter Hardware 3 .75 Nylon 1/2 pipe M to 1/4" barb hose Hardware 1 .5 PVC 3/4 elbow Hardware 1 .5 PVC 3/4 tee Hardware 4 1 3/4" hose straps to mount Hardware 10' .15/ft 1/4" ID nylon hose for ice makers Hardware 4 2.50 Poultry Nipples! "360* super flow push in" Farmtek 1 22.50 4011 / 4090 fountain water regulator Cutler's 1 3 11/32" drill bit Hardware 1 5 Anti Syphon Valve - 3/4" hose thread Farmtek 1 1 Teflon Tape Hardware

-m

Edited by maxslug - 5/5/13 at 12:43pm
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