Marans - SOP discussion thread - Page 2

Maransgal, Glad to see you made this thread, look forward to discussing Marans with you in the future. I am sure you are refering to tight tail being the opposite of fan tail right. I like the tail to be a little open with a small amount of fluff between the main rows of tail feathers.

For the past two years I have been keeping track of the width of stripe on the male Marans used for breeding and believe from I have found that we want to breed to the fine Hackle stripe male if we are looking for more color in the off spring. In my Dark to Dark matings I have this year the males had the fine narrow stripe and they have produced some nicely colored chicks male and female. In the past I have used the wider black stripe males and got darker offspring with more Mahogany. Do not get me wrong I would use a Mahogany colored male in my brood pens if he had the type I am looking for with no white in wing and tail or undercolor.

Another subject for everyone, what do you do with the side sprig, carnation problem ?

Hi Wynette,
That's just my slang for main tail feathers overlapping to the degree that they visually appear to come together to a nice point, rather than being spread or sloppy. 
Don, glad to be here.    Thanks for your input on what you're looking for, on tails. My main reference is looking at the line drawings from MCF, in coming to conclusions about type. Perhaps I'll have to reconsider allowing a little spread. I do like them a little open at the base, because I don't want a narrow tail coming off of an equally narrow (or shallow) bird.

Do you find by breeding the tails to come to a point that you also end up with pinched tails ? The two main tail feathers rows should have space between them and not be pinched into a point.

Very interesting hackle observations. It is figuring out fine-tuning, like this, that will really allow for advances to be made in useful breeding decisions.
Side sprigs.... yeah. hmmm. Well, they certainly are a problem, and I think we all have a good idea where they came from... but as for breeding them out, does anyone know how they behave, genetically? More of a recessive or dominant trait? Has anyone had them spontaneously pop out in their marans, from parents who were completely clean combed?
(I do tend to think a lot of people notice them in their males, but overlook them in their females, which causes additional continued problems with them.)
Certainly a headache to be avoided, and culled for, whenever possible.
Tails: I tend to be referring more to the side view, in my expression of tightness; as I find fan tails or sloppy tails very distasteful, in marans. I do allow a little space between the rows, from the top, but don't like it to get too gappy, where it begins to give the illusion of a split tail. Correct?
Great discussions! Now, I'm off to feed to chickens. Hope everyone has a great weekend!

The sprig is due to interaction of two dominant autosomal genes.

On the tail I like it to open some on the bottom side and closed on top, either in a V or a small inverted U, If not open at the bottom it will endup pinched.

The carnation comb is just the penne blood showing up. Just a side sprig is a problem for most any chicken and about the only way to elimnate is by single mating and keeping records until they are about two months. The sprig will usually show up by at least one month old.

Its my understanding from old timers that the comb is more influenced by the hen than the rooster. So look to the hens combs to improve the roosters.

Yeah, you'll often see a total carnation comb, and I agree that it's a sure indicator of Pene blood. There are so many breeds that have been mixed in, the indicators are seemingly never-ending. And could fill up a whole 'nother discussion board. Suffice it to say, that's why I also don't like heavy feathering, and etc. My old-blood birds have very light feathering, and when I see heavy feathering, for instance, in supposedly same-line birds, of more "modern" breeding, I have to question where it came from.
Thank you for clearing up how the sprigs behave. I assume the full carnation combs behave along the same lines as the regular sprigs? Because it seems most of our sprig problems (single or double) stem from the crossing with carnation combed birds?
And, as for the tail description, right on! Sometimes my proper terminology is lacking, so bear with me. 
Now, I'm heading out... for real! lol

Sue, Glad you found the new thread. I have heard that about the comb also. I have some old poultry books by Morley A. Jull and he suggests staying between the 4-6 range for both male and female.