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Topical anesthetic for poultry !!

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 

Hello to everyone !!

I'm wandering if any body knows about any topical anesthetic that can be used on poultry that don't represent a thread to the health of the bird or any natural remedy to decrease pain. I intend to use it to dubb(tream) my Games combs and wattles. The prosess is quick and not much pain is involved if you know what you are doing, but my wife feells sorry for the birds and since She is the one that help me hold the cocks wile I perform the procedure, I would like to please Her so She doesnt fill bad.
I have the custome of feeding the cock its own comb and wattles in an atempt to make up for the small lose of blood(This is totaly unnesesary, but I feell it is good for them) so I would like to know if I can still do this after using a topical anesthetic.

Thank you all in advance !! wink


Edited by Gladiator - 7/2/11 at 11:28am
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post #2 of 11

The usual topical anaesthetic for people is one of the "caine" drugs  such as benzocaine. cetacaine, lidocaine, etc.  Basically, you cannot use these drugs on chickens.  The reason is that the difference between therapeutic and toxic or lethal dose is almost nothing.  There's a sticky in the emergencies section that talks about a chicken dying from an ointment with one of these drugs in it.

Mostly, people who dub either do it without anesthetic, or use an ice cube to numb the area a little.

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Ventilation -- may be the most important aspect of coop design

BYC Troubleshooting article -- click here

Worry is interest paid on trouble before it comes due.

14 hatchery and mutt hens

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post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 

Thaks for your reply !!

Is just as I thought ! I was hoping that some how there was something out there safe that could be used on chickens. I guess I'll keep on doing it the traditional way; hopefully my wife will understand that the risck of anesthetic ain't worth trying to safe the bird a little of quick pain.

Thanks for the ice tip, never thought about it before. Also a friend told me yesterday that if you put garlic on a blade you dont feel the cut until you see the blood runing, so, he recomended squeezing as much garlic as nessesary in order to extract the juice and rub the edge of the cutting instrument with it as well as pouring the juice in the wound as I cut. Honestly, never heard of this one before, but I may give it a try after doing some more research on it fist, don't think garlic is harmfull to chicken but just want to make shure. Actualy I think it could be beneficial since garlic acts as an antibiotic, not shure however, that it will be eficient as a pain reducer(it may actually burn more than it will releave any pain). If anybody heve tried or knows anything about this please, feel free to coment and enlight us all.

Thanks !!

Those Who Would Give Up Essential Liberty To Purchase A Little Temporary Safety Deserve Neither Liberty Nor Safety.

Benjamin Franklin.
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Those Who Would Give Up Essential Liberty To Purchase A Little Temporary Safety Deserve Neither Liberty Nor Safety.

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post #4 of 11

don't use the garlic on the chickens, especially in the open wound - you will cause more issues than help.

take 2 ice cubes and hold to the sides of the comb for 30 or so seconds or until your fingertips are getting numb as well, and then quickly cut.

just make sure you use some blood stop power on them, and all will be well.

Explain to the wife that its better for the birds to do it quick and easy and she should see theres little distress.

I am not a fan of dubbing at all, but I know its done and nothing to be done about it - however I do know theres nothing traumatic about it to the birds as long as you know what you are doing. Though i'd never do it myself - lol.

Jessy
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Jessy
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post #5 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaredOfShadows 

don't use the garlic on the chickens, especially in the open wound - you will cause more issues than help.

take 2 ice cubes and hold to the sides of the comb for 30 or so seconds or until your fingertips are getting numb as well, and then quickly cut.

just make sure you use some blood stop power on them, and all will be well.

Explain to the wife that its better for the birds to do it quick and easy and she should see theres little distress.

I am not a fan of dubbing at all, but I know its done and nothing to be done about it - however I do know theres nothing traumatic about it to the birds as long as you know what you are doing. Though i'd never do it myself - lol.


Thank for the advice !!

The wife had helped me to dubb my cocks before and She have seen how quick and easy the prosess is. She have witnessed several times how the cocks go to crow, wander around for food, play with their gals and just go about theire normal business, but Her contention is that She kind of feels bad anyway and I should try researching to see if there is anything that can be done. She is the only help I have so I better try to please Her (LOL !!!)

I'll try the ice cubes technic. I've never done this before but sounds like a good idea. Thanks for the tip !! wink


Edited by Gladiator - 7/3/11 at 8:49am
Those Who Would Give Up Essential Liberty To Purchase A Little Temporary Safety Deserve Neither Liberty Nor Safety.

Benjamin Franklin.
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Those Who Would Give Up Essential Liberty To Purchase A Little Temporary Safety Deserve Neither Liberty Nor Safety.

Benjamin Franklin.
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post #6 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaredOfShadows 

don't use the garlic on the chickens, especially in the open wound - you will cause more issues than help.

take 2 ice cubes and hold to the sides of the comb for 30 or so seconds or until your fingertips are getting numb as well, and then quickly cut.

just make sure you use some blood stop power on them, and all will be well.

Explain to the wife that its better for the birds to do it quick and easy and she should see theres little distress.

I am not a fan of dubbing at all, but I know its done and nothing to be done about it - however I do know theres nothing traumatic about it to the birds as long as you know what you are doing. Though i'd never do it myself - lol.


I personally think dubbing is barbaric and have no idea why it is still required to show some breeds.  It seems as pointless as ear cropping on dogs even though I know that chickens seem to recover quickly from the procedure.  Sometimes we humans continue to do things because "that's the way it's always been" instead of questioning the reason for it.  No offense intended to the OP though.

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"I don't believe in the concept of hell, but if I did I would think of it as filled with people who are cruel to animals."  Gary Larson
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Breeding quality bearded Silkie bantams in white, black, buff, blue, splash & partridge.  Working on lavender & porcelain.
"I don't believe in the concept of hell, but if I did I would think of it as filled with people who are cruel to animals."  Gary Larson
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post #7 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelar 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaredOfShadows 

don't use the garlic on the chickens, especially in the open wound - you will cause more issues than help.

take 2 ice cubes and hold to the sides of the comb for 30 or so seconds or until your fingertips are getting numb as well, and then quickly cut.

just make sure you use some blood stop power on them, and all will be well.

Explain to the wife that its better for the birds to do it quick and easy and she should see theres little distress.

I am not a fan of dubbing at all, but I know its done and nothing to be done about it - however I do know theres nothing traumatic about it to the birds as long as you know what you are doing. Though i'd never do it myself - lol.


I personally think dubbing is barbaric and have no idea why it is still required to show some breeds.  It seems as pointless as ear cropping on dogs even though I know that chickens seem to recover quickly from the procedure.  Sometimes we humans continue to do things because "that's the way it's always been" instead of questioning the reason for it.  No offense intended to the OP though.


I've had this conversation before with many people, so I can understand to some degree your opinion. Yesterday I comented on the same isue and I realy don't feel like going through it all over again, it seems like a never ending thing. I respect your opinion however, your idea of the procedure been barabaric and pointless is based on a personal oppinion of yours, based on an especific way of thinking and seeing things that you have, and I'm shure you can give me a lot of arguements to support your possition. In the same way I(and many others as well) can give you many good reasons to support what we do and why we do it, and that will also be based on a personal opinion based on a different way of seen things. I personaly believe that sometimes we can cross the lines of common sence to fall into extremism, not because of opinions, everybody should be able to exersice the freedom of having opinions and velieves and conduct ourselves according to them, but  when we get to the point of imposing our opinions on others, thats when trouble arrive and real barbaric things can be done to our fellow man over pointlees isues. Understand that I'm not saying that you are trying to impose yours, you are just comenting and giving your opinion, I'm just expresing my self on something I find important to say.

I would highly recomend for you or anybody who feels like you, to try opening to the opinons of people like me, and trying to understand our point, not accept or end up doing the same we do, just trying to understand our arguments and reasons. We would also like to be understud and respected as we understand and respect the choices of people that think like you do. Many times we are refered to as if we were criminals of the worst kind just for shoosing to dubb a comb, dock a tail or croping an ear and this could not be further from the truth !!

Peace and blessings to all !! wink


Edited by Gladiator - 7/3/11 at 10:39am
Those Who Would Give Up Essential Liberty To Purchase A Little Temporary Safety Deserve Neither Liberty Nor Safety.

Benjamin Franklin.
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Those Who Would Give Up Essential Liberty To Purchase A Little Temporary Safety Deserve Neither Liberty Nor Safety.

Benjamin Franklin.
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post #8 of 11

Gladiator, I like how you explained that.


Kelar, yes I don't agree with dubbing for show - I agree with dubbing to reduce risk of frost bite up north for single combed breeds however.

Dubbing is OLD OLD OLD tradition, and its not going to change anytime soon, until its forced by law to discontinue - until then us opposed to it just have to suck it up and deal with the fact it is what it is.  I agree its no different than docking and cropping a dog - its for people's eye - its aestetically pleasing.  However dubbing served a purpose back in the day - reduce frost bite, and for when they cock fought. It turned into part of the standard for the game birds, and its continued till this day. Its an old tradition, much like many many others that are out there.

Its simple - if you don't agree with it and don't like it, then do not show game cocks, don't show purebred dogs that require it done for shows, and don't buy birds/dogs that have been dubbed/cropped/docked. *shrugs*   I don't mind docking tails - but I don't like cropping ears on a dog. SO I don't do it to any pure dogs I have ever owned.

Just because I don't agree with it, don't do it, etc I understand why those that do it continue the practice.  They love the breed, and as part of owning and showing the breed its a requirement.  Its no different than other breeds of chicken or animals we've bred to be unnatural. - take the bassets & doxies with their abnormally short legs and all the joint issues associated with it. Take the short faces of the pug, pekinese, and bull dogs - they have horrible breathing issues etc... There are worse things to be done to a dog or a chicken than dubbing, docking, and cropping. But no one is doing anything about abolishing the breeds that are defective in a daily life capacity.


Gladiatior, I am glad you and your wife are taking the time to try and research a more painless way to do this, and - definately give the icecube method a shot. Let your wife know of the dangers of any kind of aneshetic to a chicken, and that icecube numbing is about the only way to go. smile

Jessy
Shadow Calibers Silkies and Design

NPIP # 55-1101

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Jessy
Shadow Calibers Silkies and Design

NPIP # 55-1101

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post #9 of 11

I agree with most everything that is being said - I WAS just expressing an opinion because sometimes it's a good thing to think about why we do things, especially things that are done to animals.  IF there are good reasons for doing something, ie. to prevent frost bite etc., then it's for the good of the animal and is a necessary evil.  Having it be a requirement for showing though does seem unreasonable and no doubt has discouraged any number of people from owning and showing the breed.  As society progresses, I would hope that we could all continue to question our treatment of sentient animals and ask ourselves if we are making a reasonable moral decision.  Not judging anyone here at all & I realize that such things will probably not change anytime soon, but one day they might.  In the last 20 years, ear cropping and tail docking has been banned or restricted in a great many countries and bans have been considered by some states in the US.  A growing number of veterinarians refuse to do the procedures.  So, sometimes, asking the question is a good thing and results in positive change.  I very much appreciate the fact that the OP is trying to make it easier on the animals.

Breeding quality bearded Silkie bantams in white, black, buff, blue, splash & partridge.  Working on lavender & porcelain.
"I don't believe in the concept of hell, but if I did I would think of it as filled with people who are cruel to animals."  Gary Larson
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Breeding quality bearded Silkie bantams in white, black, buff, blue, splash & partridge.  Working on lavender & porcelain.
"I don't believe in the concept of hell, but if I did I would think of it as filled with people who are cruel to animals."  Gary Larson
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post #10 of 11

One tiny difference ... dogs are sedated when the surgical procedure is done.  caf

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Laugh when you can, cry when you must, work hard, play hard, wear out don't rust! wink.png

Wife to one patient hubby, mother to 4, + 11 wonderful kids who call me 'Grandma' & a sweet mother who is my partner in crime ~ Imported Orpingtons -BBS, Lavender, Gold Laced, Jubilee, Chocolate, Partridge, Crele, White, Cuckoo, & More! ~TheFancyChick.com~

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