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White yellow legged Old English Game bantams. - Page 2

post #11 of 22

Looks like Wheaten. But that bird does not have black legs but, in actuality it has slate legs.

Breeding 2011
-Cubalayas: BB Red, Blue Red, GDW, Blue GDW, White, Red Pyle             -OEGB: Black and Wheaten
-Sumatras: Large and Bantam Black                                                         -Australorps: Black (one White hen)
-Ko Shamo: Blue Wheaten                                                                        -Brahmas: Light Bantams
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Breeding 2011
-Cubalayas: BB Red, Blue Red, GDW, Blue GDW, White, Red Pyle             -OEGB: Black and Wheaten
-Sumatras: Large and Bantam Black                                                         -Australorps: Black (one White hen)
-Ko Shamo: Blue Wheaten                                                                        -Brahmas: Light Bantams
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post #12 of 22

That bird looks like its muffed...am I seeing things? It does look somewhat like a wheaten cock, but slate legged, as cuba said.

Reza Asil gamefowl

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Reza Asil gamefowl

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post #13 of 22

When you say blood, so you mean genetics?  A hen that is a similar color to the cock would have similar genetics as well.  A white bird has more to it's color than  white genes.  Once you take one of those genes away (in a cross), you still have all of the genetics that the white was masking, and you don't even know what that might be.  If you want a more neutral color to cross, try black.

A also think he looks wheaten.

post #14 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by catwalk 

A hen that is a similar color to the cock would have similar genetics as well. If you want a more neutral color to cross, try black.


I would have to disagree with that. You can make a very nice show quality Birchen by crossing black and silver duckwing, but genetically they arent even close, nor will they produce anything that resembles a birchen. You can get similiarly colored birds that are far from similiar genetically....so, does anyone else think the bird looks muffed? If you wanted to try using blacks, you would want to find out what genetic base the black is, and preferably use recessive black.


Edited by GotGame - 7/14/11 at 9:28am

Reza Asil gamefowl

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Reza Asil gamefowl

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post #15 of 22

I understand that you can take color A and color B and create color C, but he wants to take color A, breed to color B, and make color A.  I just think that A+A=A would be easier.

I see loose feathering; not really muffs.

post #16 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by catwalk 

I understand that you can take color A and color B and create color C, but he wants to take color A, breed to color B, and make color A.  I just think that A+A=A would be easier.

I see loose feathering; not really muffs.


Yes, if he can find a bird that is colored like his rooster, whose color is correct according to genetics, he will be better off. The bird looks to me like a slate legged wheaten. I can think of a couple ways to go that could get him there, but I would welcome sjarvis' opinion on this...

Reza Asil gamefowl

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Reza Asil gamefowl

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post #17 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotGame 
Quote:
Originally Posted by catwalk 

I understand that you can take color A and color B and create color C, but he wants to take color A, breed to color B, and make color A.  I just think that A+A=A would be easier.

I see loose feathering; not really muffs.


Yes, if he can find a bird that is colored like his rooster, whose color is correct according to genetics, he will be better off. The bird looks to me like a slate legged wheaten. I can think of a couple ways to go that could get him there, but I would welcome sjarvis' opinion on this...


If you want to re-create that bird then hard line breeding is the answer. if he wants the wheaton male appearance with black legs then a brown red hen whose line has a hackle fade would get him there quicker. he would then need to take pullets from that mating back under that male, and again from that mating after 5-6 generations using that male the males should look like him, if he has the ability to breed true to color and conformation which is questionalble at best.
my honest opinion is that he is a yard bird and if someone wanted to undertake that much effort they would be best suited for breeding a good line to show that could use some improvement as both are a huge undertaking and teh second would be rewarding.

Bantam: Blue Wheaten OE, Brassy Back OE, Birchen OE, Brown Red OE, Opal OE, Porcelian OE, Columbian OE  NPIP# 3-125

http://www.twinlakespoultry.com
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Bantam: Blue Wheaten OE, Brassy Back OE, Birchen OE, Brown Red OE, Opal OE, Porcelian OE, Columbian OE  NPIP# 3-125

http://www.twinlakespoultry.com
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post #18 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotGame 
Quote:
Originally Posted by catwalk 

A hen that is a similar color to the cock would have similar genetics as well. If you want a more neutral color to cross, try black.


I would have to disagree with that. You can make a very nice show quality Birchen by crossing black and silver duckwing, but genetically they arent even close, nor will they produce anything that resembles a birchen. You can get similiarly colored birds that are far from similiar genetically....so, does anyone else think the bird looks muffed? If you wanted to try using blacks, you would want to find out what genetic base the black is, and preferably use recessive black.


He's muffed. First Muffed Dutch I ever saw. Dub him quick before his earlobes turn white.  Tom


Edited by TomNY - 7/14/11 at 4:22pm
post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomNY 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotGame 
Quote:
Originally Posted by catwalk 

A hen that is a similar color to the cock would have similar genetics as well. If you want a more neutral color to cross, try black.


I would have to disagree with that. You can make a very nice show quality Birchen by crossing black and silver duckwing, but genetically they arent even close, nor will they produce anything that resembles a birchen. You can get similiarly colored birds that are far from similiar genetically....so, does anyone else think the bird looks muffed? If you wanted to try using blacks, you would want to find out what genetic base the black is, and preferably use recessive black.


He's muffed. First Muffed Dutch I ever saw. Dub him quick before his earlobes turn white.  Tom


lol


Edited by NYREDS - 7/15/11 at 5:16am
post #20 of 22
Thread Starter 

I think that my wrong use of terms to reffere to the OEGB have created some confution. Thats my bad. Acording to what I can see, must people agree that the bird loock like wheaten in color and the legs are slate. Is not that I'm trying to get a bird with black or darck legs, the problem seems to be that I used this terms(black, darck) to reffer to what seems to otherwise be slate. Taking this into consideration, lets start fresh. I want to take this wheaten, slate legged bird, and make him a female of his own blood wish I dont have. Acording to Mendel's laws this is possible. If I use a hen that look like him, it will be virtualy impossible to determine which chicks are of the blood of the cock because they will look the same. If instead I use a hen different in color, it will be easier to tell which ofprings are of the cocks blood and which are not. Using mendel's laws let say that D= is going to stand for the wheaten color of the cock which should be dominant. d= is going to stand for the white color of the hen which should be resecive. s= is going to stand for the slate legs which should be resecive and S= is going to stand for the yellow legs of the hen for the purpose of this hipotetic example.

Now; we have that the cock will be -DDss- and the hen will be -ddSS-. When you breed them, the ofprings(F1 generation) should come out wheaten and yellow legged in aparience( I already know OEGB do not come with yellow legs, this is just an example) since this are the dominant trates, but with the rescecive genes for white and slate legs not vissible, so they will all be -DdSs-. Now, if I take this ofpring and breed them brother to sister -DdSs- + -DdSs-, the ofprings of this union should give me several different convinations from wich I will use the resecive trate(slate legs -s- ) as the indicator, since resecive traits are always homozygous(pure), so, basicaly I will pic up individuals that are wheaten with slate leggs to line breed back to the line of the original cock -DDss-. Now, this individuals that I will shose will be in part heterozygous for white -Ddss- which means that they are going to be wheaten with the white  gene inside; the rest and least, will be homozygous(pure) wheaten wich is what I,m looking for. When I line breed this selected individuals of the F2 generation( -Ddss-, -DDss- ) back to the original cock( -DDss- ) The individuals of the F3 generation will tell me which from the F2 generation are pure wheaten( -DDss- ). the ones that produce white slated legs birds( -ddss- ) as part of the progeny will be impure, I will descard them. The ones from the F2 generation that only produce wheaten slate legged birds should be pure ( -DDss- ). This I will continue to line bread back to the original cock( -DDss- ) and should always breed true to color. Thats the reason I'm looking for a dominant leg color in the hen to be able to use as an indicator. It will be much easier if the leg color as well as the feather color of the hen are clearly dominant over that of the cock; resecive traits always breed true and are easier to identify, but I dont know if there is a clearly complete dominant color that can overpower the wheaten color.

Hope you all are able to understand all this mess.. I my self have a headace already th. Maybe I'm complicating my self to much he.

The bird is muffed and now I'm more puzzled by TomNY saying it is a Dutch and not an OEGB. It was given to me as an OEGB. How do I know the difference idunno ??

I apreciate your opinions !thumbsup


Edited by Gladiator - 7/18/11 at 4:51pm
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Those Who Would Give Up Essential Liberty To Purchase A Little Temporary Safety Deserve Neither Liberty Nor Safety.

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