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What all brands of poultry feed contain animal bi-products? - Page 4

post #31 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfalchek View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifish View Post

 


Putting words in other peoples mouths isn't good practice.  Simply calling the supply store to ask about animal protein in the feed you were interested in would work much better than your current tantrum.

Not "The" source of protein, but "A" source of protein in the feed. Meat proteins are more costly, but can still be had in custom mixes at a local feed mill, and maybe a couple commercial formulas. 

Changing formulas in all types of animal feed happens, you just gotta roll with it.
Ignorant people spreading misinformation should be a concern. Some of the folks on these threads, I have learned, intentionally mislead people. So I won't roll with that, thank you.  I can not begin to imagine why people would try to mislead others knowingly.. but some are at BYC. Maybe they are connected to certain feed companies -- I don't know.  They forget, the internet remembers everything, and they more they post, the more likely they are found out and called out.

What he stated was fact not ignorance... Feed companies change up formulas of their feed based on location, seasonal availability and cost that is why most use a sewn in feed tag vs printing on the bag itself... The feed ingredients can literally change from day to day or even in the middle of the day... And if the feed company has multiple manufacturing plants it's highly probable (likely) that each plant is using different ingredients for the feeds...

For this reason the feed companies have multiple formulas that they rotate through the seasons or based on availability/price.... For example if they can't get animal protein "A" at a reasonable cost due to a local shortage or price spike they simply switch to a formula that uses protein 'B" or "C" that is available at that moment... This is not unique to feed companies either, take for example hay, the hay composition that I can easily get in the Midwest isn't available at the same price all over the US, composition varies by region...
post #32 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeepBeep View Post


What he stated was fact not ignorance... Feed companies change up formulas of their feed based on location, seasonal availability and cost that is why most use a sewn in feed tag vs printing on the bag itself... The feed ingredients can literally change from day to day or even in the middle of the day... And if the feed company has multiple manufacturing plants it's highly probable (likely) that each plant is using different ingredients for the feeds...

For this reason the feed companies have multiple formulas that they rotate through the seasons or based on availability/price.... For example if they can't get animal protein "A" at a reasonable cost due to a local shortage or price spike they simply switch to a formula that uses protein 'B" or "C" that is available at that moment... This is not unique to feed companies either, take for example hay, the hay composition that I can easily get in the Midwest isn't available at the same price all over the US, composition varies by region...

 

You raise some interesting points. Perhaps you should point these out to the handful of people on feed threads declaring, hand over heart, that certain feeds absolutely, positively contain animal protien (even when they can be found in early posts lamenting that the same feed had the protein removed). I don't want to say who... okay, I do. Chris06.  You can also find those poor souls who think their feed is animal protein containing, but just never looked at a tag and blindly believe something that isn't true. Instead, you single me out for a feed mill lesson after I was intentionally mislead. You are discussing hometown mills.  But I doubt  feed brands, like the ones discussed in these threads, promoted in magazine ads and on packaging as "all-grain" "no animal protein," switching up because of commodity prices on the turn of dime. The packaging and design costs alone would make that prohibitive, not to mention outraged vendors and confused consumers. This is not like hay. This is binary. A brand either contains animal products or it does not.  Once the switch is made, the switch back does not happen, surely not as easily as you suggest. (Let alone several times a year just because porcine protein prices fell!) You need to look no further than Kalmbach, Purina, Kent Southern State, Blue Seal, et al. They have sworn off animal protein -- completely -- not just for the spring. I have yet for someone to direct me to major brand in part of the country that has not. 

post #33 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfalchek View Post

You raise some interesting points. Perhaps you should point these out to the handful of people on feed threads declaring, hand over heart, that certain feeds absolutely, positively contain animal protien (even when they can be found in early posts lamenting that the same feed had the protein removed).

I have stated the same in other threads... Feed companies don't 'remove protein' they shift the source of said protein in many instances to what is available at that time of production or for economic reasons... Yes, many US feeds drop(ped) animal proteins due to current local or federal prohibitions against it's use, but others did not and others have returned to animal proteins after prohibitions ended... ** Look at the first scans I attached, the 2014 contains plant proteins but the 2015 does not...
Quote:
You can also find those poor souls who think their feed is animal protein containing, but just never looked at a tag and blindly believe something that isn't true. Instead, you single me out for a feed mill lesson after I was intentionally mislead. You are discussing hometown mills.  But I doubt  feed brands, like the ones discussed in these threads, promoted in magazine ads and on packaging as "all-grain" "no animal protein," switching up because of commodity prices on the turn of dime.

No I am not singly discussing hometown mills, the same holds true for a vast majority of commercial feed products as well from big manufactures... Sure there are some small vanity brands that likely don't change up their formula seasonally or what not but they are the exception, not the norm...
Quote:
The packaging and design costs alone would make that prohibitive, not to mention outraged vendors and confused consumers.

This is why most companies use sewn ingredient tags instead printing the ingredients on the bag, and in many cases when they do print the ingredients on the bag many times it says something along the lines of 'many contain one or more of the following' and doesn't specifically state what it contains... As for outraged vendors and confused consumers regardless of that concern it still happens...
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This is not like hay.

I beg to differ, both vary by location, time of year and economics...
Quote:
This is binary. A brand either contains animal products or it does not.

No, it's not binary as some proteins sources are not clearly defined as an animal or not, and the ratios of animal proteins to plant proteins can vary or be switched out to another as I stated...
Quote:
Once the switch is made, the switch back does not happen, surely not as easily as you suggest. (Let alone several times a year just because porcine protein prices fell!)

Over the years I have actually watched the labels on my feeds, and for a fact yes they do switch up and change regularly and yes for a fact they do go back and forth on formulas... In fact I have opened two bags of Manna Pro sweet feed on multiple occasions and clearly seen different grains between the two feeds...

Here is a scan of two Nutrena 18% medicated chick feed bag tags from roughly a year apart, I highlighted the differences to show that the formula does in fact change, and you can see the 'supplements' were obviously adjusted (listed by amount in the ingredient tag) based on the primary ingredients and if I bothered to dig around for more labels I'm sure I could show more shifting of the formula over the last few years...


Quote:
You need to look no further than Kalmbach, Purina, Kent Southern State, Blue Seal, et al. They have sworn off animal protein -- completely -- not just for the spring. I have yet for someone to direct me to major brand in part of the country that has not. 

Look above at the Nutrena scans... Or below for a few other examples of feeds that still have animal proteins...



So now you have been shown at least one major feed (and two different feeds from said company) and one semi regional feed that have not sworn off animal proteins...
Edited by MeepBeep - 10/17/15 at 4:45pm
post #34 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeepBeep View Post


I have stated the same in other threads... Feed companies don't 'remove protein' they shift the source of said protein in many instances to what is available at that time of production or for economic reasons... Yes, many US feeds drop(ped) animal proteins due to current local or federal prohibitions against it's use, but others did not and others have returned to animal proteins after prohibitions ended... ** Look at the first scans I attached, the 2014 feed does not contain animal proteins but the 2015 does contain animal proteins...
No I am not singly discussing hometown mills, the same holds true for a vast majority of commercial feed products as well from big manufactures... Sure there are some small vanity brands that likely don't change up their formula seasonally or what not but they are the exception, not the norm...
This is why most companies use sewn ingredient tags instead printing the ingredients on the bag, and in many cases when they do print the ingredients on the bag many times it says something along the lines of 'many contain one or more of the following' and doesn't specifically state what it contains... As for outraged vendors and confused consumers regardless of that concern it still happens...
I beg to differ, both vary by location, time of year and economics...
No, it's not binary as some proteins sources are not clearly defined as an animal or not, and the ratios of animal proteins to plant proteins can vary or be switched out to another as I stated...
Over the years I have actually watched the labels on my feeds, and for a fact yes they do switch up and change regularly and yes for a fact they do go back and forth on formulas... In fact I have opened two bags of Manna Pro sweet feed on multiple occasions and clearly seen different grains between the two feeds...

Here is a scan of two Nutrena 18% medicated chick feed bag tags from roughly a year apart, I highlighted the differences to show that the formula does in fact change, and you can see the 'supplements' were obviously adjusted (listed by amount in the ingredient tag) based on the primary ingredients and if I bothered to dig around for more labels I'm sure I could show more shifting of the formula over the last few years...


Look above at the Nutrena scans... Or below for a few other examples of feeds that still have animal proteins...



So now you have been shown at least on major feed and one semi regions feed that have not sworn off animal proteins...

This is helpful I will look for Nutrena Country feeds. But your scans make my point. The examples you cite all have always contained animal products. (The Nutrena examples have animal by products as the 3rd, 4th, and 3rd ingredient, in those examples, respectively. I think you misspoke by saying it was missing from one. It is just not highlighted.)  Feeds don't switch from containing animal protein to not containing animal protein.  You and I are talking about diffferent things. You seem to be talking about the sourcing of ingredients such as grain, and the order of ingredients on the ingredient deck. I not an adherent to "vegetarian feeds" and "organic feeds" but that is a HUGE issue that is driving the backyard feed market. I'm sorry, but  you don't have a large groups of consumers worried about the providence and level of sorghum or the source of millet in the way that fret over animal protein in feed. Showing me that two feeds have always contained animal products, (again, binary, they do or don't), is helpful to me because it re-inforcese the point i was making about feed either having it or not.   But a feed can not claim to be "all grain" and one day start using blood meal because it is cheap.  Not only would that constitute false labeling, it would violate USDA and AAFCO certification, which are often based on certain broad formulations.   

post #35 of 36

Nutrena NatureWise at a few TSCs in my area, but "all vegetarian." But you say if I cool my heels and just be patient, that could change at any time. I'll keep watching. 

http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/poultry/naturewise-poultry/naturewise-layer16/index.jsp 

post #36 of 36

I had to call the local feed stores and ask for Nutrena Country Feed, and I verified the type they carry. I always call ahead, just in case something has changed...

 

I've been having a hard time locating stores carrying feeds with animal protein - it is frustrating. The Westside Farm and Feed carries the animal protein version of Nutrena, if that helps any.


Edited by abenardini - 10/20/15 at 11:51am
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