Cream Legbar Pictures

Texas4T said:

New here...new to CCLs also. Didn't really plan on them, but came into a small group of hens and a roo. I would like to have your opinions on these animals. Did I do okay? Sorry, they are a little dusty from pest treatment just before pickup, and riding in the truck for a few hours. They still laid an egg when we got home! Thanks in advance for any comments and suggestions.
-Allie

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Hi, welcome to BYC and all things Cream Legbar =) It looks like a few days since you posted, unless I missed something, I'll just pop in with some comments.

That's a good sign that they are laying, and a pretty blue egg is very important.
Your new flock looks like it has some other key factors such as nice body size and white earlobes.

The hens and rooster also have reasonable combs; flocks are often plagued by very floppy, folded combs.
Your girls seem to have distinct crests which is a good thing, although one may be a bit small, the others are fairly medium in size.
The rooster has a small crest (which is better than no crest), so the offspring should show crests in all cases.

Two general items to note:
the legs should be yellow and they look a little washed out?
the flock exhibits some of the common feather color/pattern variations which are not quite in keeping with the proposed SOP; that's a whole other discussion. The simple comment is, the rooster and a couple of hens may be heterozygous for cream, so you may see some offspring that are correct for cream.

Thanks for sharing your pictures!

sol2go said:

Hi, welcome to BYC and all things Cream Legbar =) It looks like a few days since you posted, unless I missed something, I'll just pop in with some comments.

That's a good sign that they are laying, and a pretty blue egg is very important.
Your new flock looks like it has some other key factors such as nice body size and white earlobes.

The hens and rooster also have reasonable combs; flocks are often plagued by very floppy, folded combs.
Your girls seem to have distinct crests which is a good thing, although one may be a bit small, the others are fairly medium in size.
The rooster has a small crest (which is better than no crest), so the offspring should show crests in all cases.

Two general items to note:
the legs should be yellow and they look a little washed out?
the flock exhibits some of the common feather color/pattern variations which are not quite in keeping with the proposed SOP; that's a whole other discussion. The simple comment is, the rooster and a couple of hens may be heterozygous for cream, so you may see some offspring that are correct for cream.

Thanks for sharing your pictures!

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Superb evaluation - and filled with good points.... well done!

BTW - I'm sending you a PM....

sol2go said:

Hi, welcome to BYC and all things Cream Legbar =)  It looks like a few days since you posted, unless I missed something, I'll just pop in with some comments.

That's a good sign that they are laying, and a pretty blue egg is very important.
Your new flock looks like it has some other key factors such as nice body size and white earlobes.  

The hens and rooster also have reasonable combs; flocks are often plagued by very floppy, folded combs.
Your girls seem to have distinct crests which is a good thing, although one may be a bit small, the others are fairly medium in size.
The rooster has a small crest (which is better than no crest), so the offspring should show crests in all cases.

Two general items to note:  
the legs should be yellow and they look a little washed out?
the flock exhibits some of the common feather color/pattern variations which are not quite in keeping with the proposed SOP; that's a whole other discussion.  The simple comment is, the rooster and a couple of hens may be heterozygous for cream, so you may see some offspring that are correct for cream.

Thanks for sharing your pictures!

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Thank you so much for your comments! I was hoping to get some honest, critical evaluations on them. As I say, I am very, very new to this breed and don't want to make too many mistakes. The smaller hen was a last minute replacement, and I wonder if she might be younger. I thought the hens could use a bit more barring on the tails after reading. Any ideas where I can view some excellent breed standard ideal photos? (I tend to learn more from images.) Thsnks again!

Texas4T said:

Thank you so much for your comments! I was hoping to get some honest, critical evaluations on them. As I say, I am very, very new to this breed and don't want to make too many mistakes. The smaller hen was a last minute replacement, and I wonder if she might be younger. I thought the hens could use a bit more barring on the tails after reading. Any ideas where I can view some excellent breed standard ideal photos? (I tend to learn more from images.) Thsnks again!

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Let me add my welcome to Sol2go's.

Have you seen the thread where we were exploring if there was a need for an additional SOP? -- it's kind of funny we were in discussion mode - and someone in UK decided that the USA has changed the Cream Legbar -- or some other alarmist view -- you have to take all of it with a few grains of salt.

Part of the thread takes the recent winners in the UK Poultry competitions - cuts up the photographs and compares them to the DRAFT SOP that is being worked on here in the USA by the Cream Legbar Club - with the objective of eventually gaining APA acceptance. So for example -- the points on the comb...the yellow of the legs etc. -- the white of the earlobes -- all with that portion of the picture cropped for reference. The other CL pair used for the SOP walk-thru is one from an article that was I believe in the 1980's from Fancy Fowl Magazine in the UK - and the photo is attributed to David Applegarth - who is said to have worked at Cambridge U. when Punnett was still there, and who is credited with saving the breed from Extinction. - If you decide to visit that thread - and this goes for everyone interested in Cream Legbars and improving the breed, and you want to comment on anything - or for example compare your cockerel's comb to the cropped pictures - please feel invited to post there ... Like you I'm a visual learner -- and that gets the ideas into my head the fastest.

Here is a link
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...on-for-alternative-legbars-sop-discussion/340
The walk thru starts at about post 343

ChicKat said:

Let me add my welcome to Sol2go's.

Have you seen the thread where we were exploring if there was a need for an additional SOP?  -- it's kind of funny we were in discussion mode - and someone in UK decided that the USA has changed the Cream Legbar -- or some other alarmist view -- you have to take all of it with a few grains of salt.  

Part of the thread takes the recent winners in the UK Poultry competitions - cuts up the photographs and compares them to the DRAFT SOP that is being worked on here in the USA by the Cream Legbar Club - with the objective of eventually gaining APA acceptance.  So for example -- the points on the comb...the yellow of the legs etc. -- the white of the earlobes -- all with that portion of the picture cropped for reference.  The other CL pair used for the SOP walk-thru is one from an article that was I believe in the 1980's from Fancy Fowl Magazine in the UK - and the photo is attributed to David Applegarth - who is said to have worked at Cambridge U. when Punnett was still there, and who is credited with saving the breed from Extinction.  - If you decide to visit that thread - and this goes for everyone interested in Cream Legbars and improving the breed, and you want to comment on anything - or for example compare your cockerel's comb to the cropped pictures - please feel invited to post there ... Like you I'm a visual learner -- and that gets the ideas into my head the fastest. 

Here is a link
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...on-for-alternative-legbars-sop-discussion/340
The walk thru starts at about post 343

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Thank you! Trying to learn all I can. I set 8 CCL eggs in the incubator this week, so should know more about the genetics of this little flock soon, hopefully. (Will certainly find out about fertility!) Eggshells seem a bit thin and porous, but hoping my feeding regime will help with that. Will keep u posted. Thanks again.

Can someone tell me what these are? They never were really marked well as chicks either way...didn't look male, didn't look female. I thought they were maybe pullets though. Pics at day old, three weeks and five weeks. They sure have big combs and wattles for pullets but their color doesn't look like the cockerels I have seen this age before. I bought and hatched these eggs but wonder about the quality at this point... Any help from those with experience appreciated.

LizCar said:

Can someone tell me what these are? They never were really marked well as chicks either way...didn't look male, didn't look female. I thought they were maybe pullets though. Pics at day old, three weeks and five weeks. They sure have big combs and wattles for pullets but their color doesn't look like the cockerels I have seen this age before. I bought and hatched these eggs but wonder about the quality at this point... Any help from those with experience appreciated.

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they look like boys to me

LizCar said:

Can someone tell me what these are? They never were really marked well as chicks either way...didn't look male, didn't look female. I thought they were maybe pullets though. Pics at day old, three weeks and five weeks. They sure have big combs and wattles for pullets but their color doesn't look like the cockerels I have seen this age before. I bought and hatched these eggs but wonder about the quality at this point... Any help from those with experience appreciated.

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Definitely boys! However, as per the breed quality you should wait for comments from some experts here. All I can say is that at their age especially in younger age pictures they should have willow green legs and feet and yours have such a sharp tone of yellow. That indicates that they may be some sort of hybrids.

LizCar said:

Can someone tell me what these are? They never were really marked well as chicks either way...didn't look male, didn't look female. I thought they were maybe pullets though. Pics at day old, three weeks and five weeks. They sure have big combs and wattles for pullets but their color doesn't look like the cockerels I have seen this age before. I bought and hatched these eggs but wonder about the quality at this point... Any help from those with experience appreciated.

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Although I disagree with Junibutt on preferable leg color--- my thinking is that yellow would be better than willow, since willow would indicate melanizers and that is one thing that I may want to reduce in my own flock, I agree with him and with Sol2go that they are male chicks. I can see how they could possibly be misidentified in the day-old picture --

You have identified something that seems to be popping up more here in the 'States, and I guess is pretty common in UK. The breed explanation for sexing tells us that the distinct (bright) chipmunk stripes and the dark and continuous dorsal dark thick stripe indicate female -- also the very visible V at the front of the head - small part of the V pointing toward the beak. For the males -- the diffuse chipmunk stripes.

The males seem to have a barring gene that is either not expressing or expressing more weakly and indefinitely than would be optimum for crisp barring I think-- although CLs go through so many changes as they move to complete adult plumage, I could be mistaken there. IMO the strong definite white head blotch on the male is an indication of strong barring genetics. Although it is visible in the photo from Punnett's day, I don't believe he mentions it -- and in my line -- it is so prominent that I can tell when the chick is still wet it will have a light head splotch.

The three week old picture - they look the most pullet-like of all --

These little cockerels do have a nice head-comb-crest combination -- and the yellow legs and beak are a plus IMO. It would indicate to me that they don't have excess melanizers - and they could help someone who needed to reduce the black in their flock's barring/markings.

Thanks for posting -- because this is really informative.

Here is a chick sexing plate from genetics journal in Punnett's day:


Two girls with V's and a boy with splotch

Just hatched boy above with white/light splotch

Just hatched girl with V and dorsal chipmumk stripes over back.....

ETA - if you aren't familiar with the Punnett chick photo/plate -- the middle and top chicks are male - and the bottom two are female.

Thanks Chikat. I also have read many times that the desired leg color is yellow. And every chick I have seen for sale else where have had yellow legs. There were 15 chicks total from the hatch and two were most definitely male with very large head spots and a different coloring. Three were muted stripes like these with no head spot. They all ended up males. I sold them all as pullets. These two she mentioned she thought were Roos and when she sent the three week pic I was like, big combs but pullet feathering. So we gave it more time and the five week pics I was like wow I think these are Roos... I have to remiburse three chicks now hahahahahaha. Thanks for the replies. BTW the rest were very vivid, dark eyeliner and back stripe pullets.