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"Hatchery Quality" ????? - Page 2

post #11 of 18

Hatcheries are sort of the Puppy mills of the poultry world.  They have great customer service and it is so easy to order and they are cheap and very easy to find. They buyer puts no effort and little money into ordering. In return, the buyer gets chicks that might or might not be purebred and might or might not look and behave like the breed they are supposed to be.

Hatcheries vary from puppy mills in a major way,  which is that the unwanted birds they produce end up in the stew pot instead of clogging up the animal shelters like the unwanted dogs from the puppy mills. That is an enormous difference, which makes me very anti-puppy mill, and indifferent to the hatcheries.

Exhibition birds are bred to meet their Standard of Perfection.  They are purebreds who look like their  breed and should act like their breed.

Breeding quality will get you a different definition from just about anybody you ask.  To many, it is a bird not quite good enough to win at shows, but that has the potential to produce show quality birds. To me, a breeding quality bird has the looks to win, the correct temperament, the correct egg laying for the breed, good health, and excellent mothering (if the breed is supposed to go broody).  Those are the ones that get bred around here.

Gresh's definition of breeder is, well, it is uniquely his own. But since there is no official definition, he is free to use any definition he pleases.

Because of differing definitions and differing standards, it is important to ask before you buy so you know what you are getting.

Exhibition quality Blue Swedish Ducks and Gray Saddleback Pomeranian Geese,   Hatching eggs available in late winter and spring. NPIP

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Exhibition quality Blue Swedish Ducks and Gray Saddleback Pomeranian Geese,   Hatching eggs available in late winter and spring. NPIP

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post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon Blues 

Hatcheries are sort of the Puppy mills of the poultry world.  They have great customer service and it is so easy to order and they are cheap and very easy to find. They buyer puts no effort and little money into ordering. In return, the buyer gets chicks that might or might not be purebred and might or might not look and behave like the breed they are supposed to be.

Hatcheries vary from puppy mills in a major way,  which is that the unwanted birds they produce end up in the stew pot instead of clogging up the animal shelters like the unwanted dogs from the puppy mills. That is an enormous difference, which makes me very anti-puppy mill, and indifferent to the hatcheries.

Exhibition birds are bred to meet their Standard of Perfection.  They are purebreds who look like their  breed and should act like their breed.

Breeding quality will get you a different definition from just about anybody you ask.  To many, it is a bird not quite good enough to win at shows, but that has the potential to produce show quality birds. To me, a breeding quality bird has the looks to win, the correct temperament, the correct egg laying for the breed, good health, and excellent mothering (if the breed is supposed to go broody).  Those are the ones that get bred around here.

Gresh's definition of breeder is, well, it is uniquely his own. But since there is no official definition, he is free to use any definition he pleases.

Because of differing definitions and differing standards, it is important to ask before you buy so you know what you are getting.


I just want to say that another way that most hatcheries are different then puppy mills is that most hatcheries dont treat their animals poorly.

Proud Member of the UOC 
There are too many breeds and varieties in the world to have them all... but its too hard just to choose a few.

Currently breeding Bantam Orpingtons, Anconas, White Faced Black Spanish, and RC Rhode Island Reds.  Also have Buff, Blue Swedish and Runner ducks along with Chinese Geese.

 

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Proud Member of the UOC 
There are too many breeds and varieties in the world to have them all... but its too hard just to choose a few.

Currently breeding Bantam Orpingtons, Anconas, White Faced Black Spanish, and RC Rhode Island Reds.  Also have Buff, Blue Swedish and Runner ducks along with Chinese Geese.

 

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post #13 of 18
Thread Starter 

I have ordered my chickens from a hatchery for years and been very pleased with breed standard and and breed quality.  I am a hobbiest, and do not show the birds,  but I do not feel that is would be accurate to say all the hatcheries are the same, and not pure bred, or poorly bred.  It has not been my experience.

post #14 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by rachel1 

I have ordered my chickens from a hatchery for years and been very pleased with breed standard and and breed quality.  I am a hobbiest, and do not show the birds,  but I do not feel that is would be accurate to say all the hatcheries are the same, and not pure bred, or poorly bred.  It has not been my experience.


You are right, all hatcheries are not the same.  I have used my local hatchery for a while now, and they produce really nice quality stock, that is rarely poor in conformation.  Despite this, I would get laughed at if I tried to show my birds in a professional ring.

It's like the difference of buying your clothes at Wal-Mart (sensible but cheap materials, gets the job done) vs going to New York and hand selecting something from 5th Avenue.  You're going to benefit from the love, craftsmanship, attention to detail, and dedication to quality that WalMart just isn't interested in.  But you'll pay for the quality you're receiving.

There is nothing wrong with hatchery birds, they just can't and won't fit into the showing world unless you get extremely lucky and win the genetic lottery.  Even in those circumstances, you can't breed a hatchery bird and expect the next generation to be of the same quality.  The stable genetics just arn't there.

You can see this very starkly in barred rocks

Here is a hatchery bird.  Pretty, does her job, and generally represents BRs well:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PGM9RjZ6pXM/S94L7S0uoRI/AAAAAAAAAFw/4rWkBFceVYs/s1600/barred+rock+1.jpg


Here is a show quality BR.  Her bars are in military precise formation, her body shape is gorgeous, etc.:
http://media.photobucket.com/image/barred%20rock%20show%20winner/jmr8891/Shows/Boston%20Poultry%20Expo%202008/IMG_6897.jpg


(btw, I do not own either of these birds, nor am making profit off of their use.  If you are the owner of the images and wish me to take them down, just pm me)

"It's easy. You draw a red line on the ground, right? Then you wait for a chicken to come along. When he arrives, he puts his beak right on the line and he's hypnotized!"
Joey Santiago
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"It's easy. You draw a red line on the ground, right? Then you wait for a chicken to come along. When he arrives, he puts his beak right on the line and he's hypnotized!"
Joey Santiago
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post #15 of 18

[[[......most hatcheries dont treat their animals poorly......]]]]]]

I don't know how hatcheries treat their breeding stock, and unless you've worked in a hatchery, I doubt that you do either.

Most hatcheries just hatch and don't have any breeding stock, or at least they don't have breeding stock for all the breeds they sell.. They just buy eggs to hatch.  So I don't know how the people who supply eggs to hatcheries treat their birds, either.  I suspect that those birds aren't being raised the way most of us here on BYC raise our birds.

Exhibition quality Blue Swedish Ducks and Gray Saddleback Pomeranian Geese,   Hatching eggs available in late winter and spring. NPIP

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Exhibition quality Blue Swedish Ducks and Gray Saddleback Pomeranian Geese,   Hatching eggs available in late winter and spring. NPIP

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post #16 of 18

I've been very pleased with my hatchery-quality poultry... and non-show-quality rabbits.  I realized that superior meat/egg production, great health, and agreeable personalities are much more important criteria to me than appearance.  My critters are beautiful, and I don't particularly care how close they are to someone else's opinion of the ideal specimen.  Nor do I have any interest in competing with other people for bragging rights.

So, my rabbits have "sloping rears and skinny ears" but regularly wean 8-10 kits per litter.  My Australorp roo has an ugly comb, but is gentle and attentive with his ladies, who keep my family and customers well stocked with eggs. 

As with humans, it's what's inside that counts!

Hi!  I'm Bryan, and Smiles-N-Sunshine is my hobby farm.

 

Smiles-N-Sunshine Farm (Palominas, Arizona):  Black Australorp chickens, and mealworms.  Protected by Ottoman the Turkey.
 

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Hi!  I'm Bryan, and Smiles-N-Sunshine is my hobby farm.

 

Smiles-N-Sunshine Farm (Palominas, Arizona):  Black Australorp chickens, and mealworms.  Protected by Ottoman the Turkey.
 

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post #17 of 18

This is a picture of two Orpingtons, not the greatest picture but two chickens from my flock.   The buff on the left is a hatchery bird and 8 months older than the splash on the right.    The splash is a heritage/exhibition/closer to apa standard - you can see she is over all larger, wider and if picked up heavier than the hatchery bird.

http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/31162_dsc_0305.jpg

Fowl adventures happening daily       

"Poultry- they may be your pets, they may be your hobby, they may be your livestock. But remember, if you fall down in the pen, unconscious? They WILL eat you." ~ Sally/Ranchie - we miss you.
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Fowl adventures happening daily       

"Poultry- they may be your pets, they may be your hobby, they may be your livestock. But remember, if you fall down in the pen, unconscious? They WILL eat you." ~ Sally/Ranchie - we miss you.
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post #18 of 18
1. Hatchery. By far the worst, when it comes to standards. Though many hatcheries offer good pet-quality (synonymous with hatchery-quality) birds that lay well, they are usually quite off on the standards. They may not even be purebred. Hatchery birds may also have health problems because of disease outbreaks, or because the parent stock has been vaccinated (vaccinating birds will lead to weaker second-generation birds, and breeding for hardiness--even at the expense of losing some birds--is always better in the long run). There are a very small amount of hatcheries that do pretty well, when it comes to standards, but there are not many.

2. Exhibition. To-the-t with standards. Perfect in looks. However, it's important to distinguish perfect in looks from perfect in purpose or perfect in hardiness. An exhibition bird may be flawless in appearance, matching every breed standard beautifully, but it may not whether disease well at all, and it may be weakened through inbreeding. It may also not fulfill its original purpose as a breed. For instance, if a breed was created for egg-laying purposes, it should be a good egg-layer. Should it look like the breed? Of course, but it should fulfill its purpose as a breed before it meets every outward standard for a breed.

3. Breeder. From only the most dedicated chicken-breeders. These birds are not exhibition, but not hatchery. They have enough of the standards (looks, behavior, weight) to be their particular breed, but are not so perfect that they no longer serve their intended purpose. It must be understood that not everyone who calls himself a "breeder" is truly dedicated to a breed. One who is truly dedicated to a breed of chicken--and thereby a true breeder--will be concerned enough about looks to make sure his birds are pure and look pure, but will also be concerned enough about purpose to make sure his birds are good layers if they're supposed to be layers and good meat birds if they're supposed to be meat birds.


These opinions are the result of experienced breeders here on BYC giving me advice, so not all of these ideas are "original" wink.png


~Gresh~
[/quote]

I would agree with this but the breeder one I would dissagree with
Someone who hatches cross breeds could be classed as a breeder.
Also a breeder could have and breed exebishion birds
Edited by ChickenGrass - 3/25/16 at 3:03pm
I breed and show
Gold partridge pekin bantam
Coronation Sussex bantam
Barbu d'Anver quail colour
Black bantam silkie
Cream legbar
Rouen ducks
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I breed and show
Gold partridge pekin bantam
Coronation Sussex bantam
Barbu d'Anver quail colour
Black bantam silkie
Cream legbar
Rouen ducks
Reply
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