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Mottled/Spangled Orpingtons - Page 2

post #11 of 244

I'm not sure.  I'll look through my picture archives and see what I can find.  I didn't hang on to the lavender mottleD birds very long as my focus was more on the black mottled.  I didn't care for the lavender and white combination personally, but I do know some folks are working with them from us.

Breeds: Lavender, Buff, Black and White Orpington & Tufted Rumpless Araucana (lavender, white and nonstandard colors)

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Breeds: Lavender, Buff, Black and White Orpington & Tufted Rumpless Araucana (lavender, white and nonstandard colors)

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post #12 of 244

Hi, Mr Cook or one of his sons,  made the spangled (mottled) together with the jubilee and the cuckoo - it was standardised in 1923 with the British Poultry Club of Great Britain.  After the 2nd world war there were several orpington clubs and it was decided that they should become one.  The Buff Orpington Club decided not to join and continued to this day to remain outside the Orpington Club.  When these clubs were joined up as one group the orpington club did not print the standards of these three colours.
Here in England they are coming back again and the spangled as Mr. Cook called them have been acquired from the continent, together with the Jubilee.  I have cuckoo, jubilee, and spangled in large fowl and in bantams.




http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h314/Stockbridge69/P1030440.jpg

Sandy

D

May the wing of friendship never mar a feather!!

www.orpingtonsgalore.com
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May the wing of friendship never mar a feather!!

www.orpingtonsgalore.com
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post #13 of 244

I have a mottled genetics and how-to question, but will use the specific variety that I'm interested in to make my point.  Does the mottled gene necessarily "stick with" other color genes? 

If you have a flock of mottled lavender orpingtons.  You breed out to pure black orp in order to improve type.  The first generation would be visually black.  When these were bred together, the second generation would result in 25% lavenders. 
Would these 25% be MOTTLED lavender? 
Or, by breeding these resulting lavenders (but not mottled) back to the original parent stock of mottled lavender, you would get mottled lavender. 

I hope my question makes sense.  Would either of these actually work the way I stated?  If so, is it the shortest/best/only path for breeding out to improve type in a mottled lav?


Edited by matte - 1/8/12 at 6:45am
post #14 of 244

Yes to improve the lavender gene and type, we in England breed it to black then the cock birds that hatch are what we call split for lavenders, (they carry the lavender gene) rather than breed the siblings together, we go back to the parents to enhance the colour and type, hope that helps.  Sandy 

D

May the wing of friendship never mar a feather!!

www.orpingtonsgalore.com
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May the wing of friendship never mar a feather!!

www.orpingtonsgalore.com
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post #15 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orpy Lady 

Yes to improve the lavender gene and type, we in England breed it to black then the cock birds that hatch are what we call split for lavenders, (they carry the lavender gene) rather than breed the siblings together, we go back to the parents to enhance the colour and type, hope that helps.  Sandy 

D


Okay, thanks.  And when you go back to the parents, the result would also include the mottling on all of the lavenders produced??

post #16 of 244
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orpy Lady 

Hi, Mr Cook or one of his sons,  made the spangled (mottled) together with the jubilee and the cuckoo - it was standardised in 1923 with the British Poultry Club of Great Britain.  After the 2nd world war there were several orpington clubs and it was decided that they should become one.  The Buff Orpington Club decided not to join and continued to this day to remain outside the Orpington Club.  When these clubs were joined up as one group the orpington club did not print the standards of these three colours.
Here in England they are coming back again and the spangled as Mr. Cook called them have been acquired from the continent, together with the Jubilee.  I have cuckoo, jubilee, and spangled in large fowl and in bantams.




http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h314/Stockbridge69/P1030440.jpg

Sandy

D


Sandy, will you send her to me? I'm sure she would love to live with my big Splash boy Neville and produce some lovely Blue Mottled babies!
love

post #17 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orpy Lady 

Hi, Mr Cook or one of his sons,  made the spangled (mottled) together with the jubilee and the cuckoo - it was standardised in 1923 with the British Poultry Club of Great Britain.  After the 2nd world war there were several orpington clubs and it was decided that they should become one.  The Buff Orpington Club decided not to join and continued to this day to remain outside the Orpington Club.  When these clubs were joined up as one group the orpington club did not print the standards of these three colours.
Here in England they are coming back again and the spangled as Mr. Cook called them have been acquired from the continent, together with the Jubilee.  I have cuckoo, jubilee, and spangled in large fowl and in bantams.




http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h314/Stockbridge69/P1030440.jpg

Sandy

D


ep  love

post #18 of 244

So I just want to jump in here and ask -



We're looking and eyeing for a mottled English type Orpington, yes? Why not go Jubilee x blue or black? Really, the blues and blacks I've seen are the best, and Jubilees have the mottling. A true mottled bird after all is just extended black, like found in blues and blacks, with mottling. Basically go for the mottling gene, then breed out the rest of the Jubilee and shoot for the type found in the blue/black parentage. Mottling being recessive will be a tad tricky to keep reviving while breeding out a lot of Jubilee traits, but it of course isn't impossible.


Just sayin' smile



btw - Isn't "spangled" the term for a brown patterned bird w/mottling, like Mille Fleur? I thought Mottled was the term for, well, a black mottled bird.


Btw beautiful bird shown!!

Araucanas, Polish, Shamos, Olive Eggers, and a handful of Finn Sheep, Wensleydale Sheep, Gotland Sheep, Kinder Goats, a Yak, and various rare breed Turkeys, Ducks, and Pigs.

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Araucanas, Polish, Shamos, Olive Eggers, and a handful of Finn Sheep, Wensleydale Sheep, Gotland Sheep, Kinder Goats, a Yak, and various rare breed Turkeys, Ducks, and Pigs.

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post #19 of 244
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illia 

So I just want to jump in here and ask -



We're looking and eyeing for a mottled English type Orpington, yes? Why not go Jubilee x blue or black? Really, the blues and blacks I've seen are the best, and Jubilees have the mottling. A true mottled bird after all is just extended black, like found in blues and blacks, with mottling. Basically go for the mottling gene, then breed out the rest of the Jubilee and shoot for the type found in the blue/black parentage. Mottling being recessive will be a tad tricky to keep reviving while breeding out a lot of Jubilee traits, but it of course isn't impossible.


Just sayin' smile



btw - Isn't "spangled" the term for a brown patterned bird w/mottling, like Mille Fleur? I thought Mottled was the term for, well, a black mottled bird.


Btw beautiful bird shown!!


There are already Mottled Orps here in the US - UK Imports and APA SOP birds, no need really to outcross to Jubilee in order to breed in the mottling gene.

I do plan on breeding for a Blue Jubilee Orpington in the future though, once I have my Blue Mottled line established. smile

ETA: Black Mottled is referred to as Spangled in the UK/Europe. Dunno why, just is. hu


Edited by jeremy - 1/8/12 at 8:24pm
post #20 of 244

The word "mottled" - describes the basic patten, when the  " Cooks" made the colour, they called it the spangled.  Over here we have mottled pekins, I think you call yours "cochins"
Jubilee is a colour that Mr. Cook invented for Queen Victoria's "Jubilee" whereas this same colour in "sussex" is speckled or "millefleur" as in the Belgian Barbu d'Uccle.  It is all so confusing to say the least.  If you add lavender to the gene of "Millefleur" then the colour become "Porcelaine" 
I am hoping to do a "Porcelaine" bantam orpington this year, by breeding bantam lavender to my bantam Jubilee orpingtons. 
HEY HO - WHAT A WAY TO GO!
Sandy

D

May the wing of friendship never mar a feather!!

www.orpingtonsgalore.com
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May the wing of friendship never mar a feather!!

www.orpingtonsgalore.com
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