Mottled/Spangled Orpingtons

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Christabelle said:
I honestly think it should be disclosed. Having jubilee in the mix will create red leakage in mottled birds. Maybe not all of them, but I would think a good percentage of them. I think a lot of people did this to churn out mottled chicks faster. I may be wrong though. Hopefully the seller disclosed it to you.
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I am going to agree with you, there are a bunch of auctions on rarebreed and they are either for chicks of both patterns from the same parents, or the parents and its stated that they produced Jubilee. I was told NOT to breed Jubilee into the spangled, and not to breed two spangled x jubilee together, or you would continue to get jubilee and lots of leakage issues in the spangled.
 
Thanks Louise, I didn't want to say anything because I am far from an expert but when you check out the uk breeder pages they give you some of this information. Keith from uk has always been gracious to share info - so has Sandy which supplies a lot of the imported orps to the states. Most all of our colors are projects from some time or another. Even with Chicken genetics you can eventually end up with an ooops- even after many generations.
 
@kidcody wouldn't it have been easier to outcross to Blacks or Blues to diversify the lines?

Then you never would have even had to worry about any red leakage.

Just makes more sense, IMO.
 
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Not at the time according to Mr. Bob Follows and Thomas Hommel who they are experts when it comes to breeding the Spangle/Mottle lines....we only followed what was asked of us. The Spangle/Mottle and the Jubilee Orpingtons carry the same standards and that is what the goal was at that time. Once again this is a common practice in Europe to breed the Spangle to the Jubilee at least every 5 years..this was not something we decide to do on our own. And this was recommend by two different top breeds of Spangle that have had won National titles to their credit on breeding these. Since these particular imported Spangle/Mottles had already carried the Jubilee gene and Bob Follows says every once in a while you will see a roo that has these red/brown leakage feathers...so the fact that we crossed into the Jubilee to bring in a new bloodline would of not made a difference any way. We were not trying to create something different or new. Just trying to keep the remaining Spangle/Mottle that we had since they were ageing and there were no other Spangle lines in the US for us to breed to. Marc was down to one original import hen left that was quit old and had to wait 6 months while a young Jubilee roo matured to start his breeding. That is the only reason why I was able to release mine before his. I did and do have a black/Split Spangle line that should not carry the red leakage (hopefully) Even though the red/brown feathers will diminish over time and not be a problem with selective breeding. Or at least for the breeders that truly care about the Spangle/Mottle. This color even in Europe has been a very difficult color to breed maintain. And even more difficult to balance the correct amount of white. Every person that I have sold to or even talked to. I always educated them on that these particular Spangle/Mottles and that the first generation (which was not sold,) was crossed into a Jubilee. I am known to be a very honest breeder and share every new information I learn. I have emails to prove that once I did find out that it was possible that these Spangle/Mottles could produce roos with red/brown leakage. I offered to buy them back..not one person wanted that...Also every person received what knowledge was shared with me on what colors could be expected other then the Spangle/Mottle color. This line can also produce several rare mottle colors...1 out of 64 chicks...I produced 2 so far. I don't claim to be a expert on them. I 'm a honest breeder that is willing to share with others. I normally don't talk much unless I'm spoken to. So when people are making comment that they absolute know no history of this color or even people that have never even owned or bred this color. I ask not to judge until you take the time to know the facts...Not just by listening to one persons who thinks they knows the fact on paper. I adore this color and I will continue to do my best to improve upon them.
 
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Hm. It only takes 2 generations to get back to pure Mottled birds when outcrossing to Blue or Black.

You do get visually Mottled birds right away when you breed to Jubilees, but there is the color issue there that I previously mentioned...

Oh well, whatever way works best for each individual!
wink.png


I would think outcrossing to BBS would greatly benefit type as well, as most BBS lines in the US have superior type to other colors.
 
jeremy said:
Oh well, whatever way works best for each individual!
wink.png
Click to expand...

If you want to be snarky though, alright.

I wonder... was your real motivation in outcrossing to Jubilees soley for the sake of bettering the newly imported Mottled line, or just to reproduce visually Mottled birds as quickly as possible in order to make a profit before anyone else?
smile.png


I ended my sentence there with a smiley face, just like you did, so that it takes away any and all negative connotation.
 
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