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Standard of Perfection - Page 23

post #221 of 321

 

Quote:

capayvalleychick: He also does argue from time to time with people on the appearance of the Buckeye. lol.png So it must be a touchy subject with him.

 I admit I am a little too touchy about the shape of Buckeyes & will never figure this breed out.

 

Quote:

fowlman: He probably is a Buckeye expert. I don't consider anyone an expert until they have raised something for 30+ years though.....but that is just me.

 

I agree with you on the 30+ years -- perhaps in 30 years & I live to be 81 years old (and hopefully wiser and not lost my mind),  I will change my mind & love the picture then.

 

No, I am not an expert on Buckeyes & have said that many times too.

post #222 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgmccary View Post

I am not trying to be cantankerous and know that it is the description that counts and NOT the picture (and I'll go by the description over the picture); I am pointing the 2010 illustration out because I do not want someone breeding to the picture. I do not know when the 2010 SOP illustration was done (1983 or lately), but I much prefer the old illustration. I also cannot discern the artist's name -- artists are not always neat with autographing their illustrations & I haven't tried to see "who" because it wouldn't make much difference (i.e. I do not know the various artists). I do love the old Shilling and Sewell illustrations.

 

 

I am an APA member & I did bother to purchase one of the APA's numbered deluxe 2010 SOP editions (so I paid the price to gripe as well) & I do have more than just a few Buckeyes in the backyard. My flock is 50 Buckeyes at the moment but that is about to change because some cockerels are headed for the freezer (and chicks are hatching this weekend). This year my plans call for moving to a stable flock size of about 75. 

 

Yes, I think the illustration looks more like a RIR with high shoulders with a pinched tail (I am agreeing with another Buckeye breeder -- well, he said also (added) like a "Java"). I do not show Buckeyes a lot but of the 4 shows I have taken my Buckeyes, I had BB at Ohio National in 2009, CH American Class in 2010 GA show and CH Large Fowl this year's (2012) Jefferson, GA show (none of the shows with the same judge so three opinions there). There were 18 Buckeyes at this year's GA show. There are no master breeders of Buckeyes-- I admit this.

 

I do NOT consider myself so much a "Buckeye breeder" for shows & I have said this many times over and over (I show for two reasons: (1) to put the breed in the public eye to increase its popularity and (2)  to obtain feedback so I do not get caught with my own barn blinders on (feedback from whatever judge but also from other breeders as well). It is nice if my birds do well but it does not dictate my breeding decisions. I DO consider myself as a preservationist of the Buckeye breed. I meant the criticizm of the 2010 Buckeye illustration with all seriousness; I was not being frivolous. I made the statement publically so others would read it, take it seriously & breed to the description and not the illustration per se. BYC is an excellent forum for such because it has so many followers.

 

Other than my 1910, 1915, 1923 SOPs,  I also have a 1938, 1942 & a 1974 SOP but nothing in-between up to my 1999 copy so am unaware of when various illustrations were added, left out, etc. I am disappointed in the Buckeye's picture in the new SOP for the reason I have said above . . .

 

Christopher McCary

Well Christopher...after reading my posts I would have to say that I was the cantankerous one in these posts. I just finished a heated debate with a know it all that has raised hatchery chickens for about a year, so I guess I was still wound up. Sorry about that. While outside feeding in the nice 80 degree weather here in Cali I realized I was a bit cranky and thought I better come in and write this..

The most important thing is to breed to the written Standard. I believe the outline of the Buckeye illustration to be pretty much on with the written description, but no one can go wrong going by the written description alone....... .or using the old black and white illustrations by Schilling. We printed a SOP with just the old black and white pics, but no one bought them. Jacky used a projector to outline some of the stuff she did, but it is all pretty primitive.....it was just meant to just get you close. I worked very closely with Plumer, so her illustrations are pretty good. The APA paid Jacky $50.00 per illustration....which was paid by the illustrations sponsors. The old saying "you get what you pay for" applies here. We have never had a complaint about the Buckeye illustrations until now, but it is noted. I don't trust my sole judgement on these things.....I will pass it on to the SOP Committee.

 

The reasons you have for showing are very good reasons...too bad more people don't view it that way. I also did not mean to take away from your Best of Show with a Buckeye award.....that just does not happen. Good job! Every time I saw Grant Malone in the old days he would press a buckeye nut into my hand when he shook hands. It would have made him very happy to hear about a Buckeye winning Best of Show.

 

There is someone out here in Napa that has several hundred Buckeye's. I can't think of his name, but he probably belongs to the Buckeye club.

 

Keep up the good work!

 

Walt
 

 

post #223 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgmccary View Post

 

Quote:

 I admit I am a little too touchy about the shape of Buckeyes & will never figure this breed out.

 

I agree with you on the 30+ years -- perhaps in 30 years & I live to be 81 years old (and hopefully wiser and not lost my mind),  I will change my mind & love the picture then.

 

No, I am not an expert on Buckeyes & have said that many times too.

You should be touchy about the breed you love. Just don't get cranky like me when you are 81....I have about 12 more years to hit 81. I don't think you will love the picture then either. Hopefully we will have a better way to create the illustrations by then.

 

I'm not an expert either, but we have plenty of experts here on BYC to make up for our lack of knowledge.....and that sure makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

 

Walt
 

 

post #224 of 321

 

Quote:

Well Christopher...after reading my posts I would have to say that I was the cantankerous one in these posts. I just finished a heated debate with a know it all that has raised hatchery chickens for about a year, so I guess I was still wound up. Sorry about that. While outside feeding in the nice 80 degree weather here in Cali I realized I was a bit cranky and thought I better come in and write this..

The most important thing is to breed to the written Standard. I believe the outline of the Buckeye illustration to be pretty much on with the written description, but no one can go wrong going by the written description alone....... .or using the old black and white illustrations by Schilling. We printed a SOP with just the old black and white pics, but no one bought them. Jacky used a projector to outline some of the stuff she did, but it is all pretty primitive.....it was just meant to just get you close. I worked very closely with Plumer, so her illustrations are pretty good. The APA paid Jacky $50.00 per illustration....which was paid by the illustrations sponsors. The old saying "you get what you pay for" applies here. We have never had a complaint about the Buckeye illustrations until now, but it is noted. I don't trust my sole judgement on these things.....I will pass it on to the SOP Committee.

 

The reasons you have for showing are very good reasons...too bad more people don't view it that way. I also did not mean to take away from your Best of Show with a Buckeye award.....that just does not happen. Good job! Every time I saw Grant Malone in the old days he would press a buckeye nut into my hand when he shook hands. It would have made him very happy to hear about a Buckeye winning Best of Show.

 

There is someone out here in Napa that has several hundred Buckeye's. I can't think of his name, but he probably belongs to the Buckeye club.

 

Keep up the good work!

 

Walt

 

 

I didn't take your comments as being cantankerous. Oh I think I will order one of those black and white pictured SOPs (especially if there are plenty of them) just because I like the B & W pictures better. I often think the colored illustrations look too much like cartoons where the B & W look more professional. I do love the box the deluxe edition came in, and I specifically requested a number which added to 11 (I am superstitious sometimes about numbers) -- I got #47. I like one of the artist's picture better than the other ones so from what everyone is saying it is probably Plumer's I like best (one had more detail or something).

 

I don't think you could get two Buckeye folks together and agree on a picture. We have tried to construct a new club logo with a "proper Buckeye" pictured. I sent some pictures of mine for a well known artist to draw a picture (and we're paying $200), and someone said (an APA judge), "no, no, its holding its wing wrong . . " I agreed but thought the artist could correct that part and I said "what about the rest of my pictured bird & let her just draw the wing different (correct)." Others sent pictures of their Buckeyes that had won shows but I thought they lacked good front or too long in the back-- we just don't have have a perfect one to look at -- for me, I would love to bring one of the old artists back to life, put some different Buckeyes in front of him and say, "draw this part from this one, this other part from that one, etc."

 

A group of us were going to approach the APA and perhaps come up with another artist's rendition (if we could agree), submit it with our reasons and if accepted, pay for the next edition's pictures. I wouldn't mind sponsoring (paying for) both LF pictures & $500 a piece or so does not sound too steep to me. All in good time.

 

Christopher McCary

post #225 of 321
Quote:

Originally Posted by BarnGoddess01 View Post
 

. I'm even hearing (on another board) of an APA judge (named!) that supposedly claimed to DQ a bird for laying the wrong colour egg at a show!!!! tongue.png

 



Well, I certainly hope so.  If a bird lays the wrong color of egg, it is a very strong indication that the bird is not a purebred.

 

If I watch a RIR lay a blue egg, my first thought is not "What a great RIR!"  My first thought is "Uh-oh. There was an EE in the woodpile."

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post #226 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon Blues View Post



Quote:

Originally Posted by BarnGoddess01 View Post
 

. I'm even hearing (on another board) of an APA judge (named!) that supposedly claimed to DQ a bird for laying the wrong colour egg at a show!!!! tongue.png

 



Well, I certainly hope so.  If a bird lays the wrong color of egg, it is a very strong indication that the bird is not a purebred.

 

If I watch a RIR lay a blue egg, my first thought is not "What a great RIR!"  My first thought is "Uh-oh. There was an EE in the woodpile."



If that is in the Standard, I would LOVE to know where because I can't find it.

 

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Working hard in Canada with Bearded Silkies (White, Blue/Splash, Porcelain), B/B/S Ameraucanas,  and Black/Blue Copper Marans

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post #227 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarnGoddess01 View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon Blues View Post



Quote:

Originally Posted by BarnGoddess01 View Post
 

. I'm even hearing (on another board) of an APA judge (named!) that supposedly claimed to DQ a bird for laying the wrong colour egg at a show!!!! tongue.png

 



Well, I certainly hope so.  If a bird lays the wrong color of egg, it is a very strong indication that the bird is not a purebred.

 

If I watch a RIR lay a blue egg, my first thought is not "What a great RIR!"  My first thought is "Uh-oh. There was an EE in the woodpile."



If that is in the Standard, I would LOVE to know where because I can't find it.

 


I have heard of more than one person entering birds that were not purebred.

 

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post #228 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarnGoddess01 View Post



If that is in the Standard, I would LOVE to know where because I can't find it.

 



GENERAL DISQUALIFICATIONS

 

Alll Breeds & Varieties

 

1. Specimen lacking in breed characteristics.

 

Egg colour is a breed characteristic

 


Edited by NYREDS - 2/23/12 at 6:27pm
post #229 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYREDS View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by BarnGoddess01 View Post



If that is in the Standard, I would LOVE to know where because I can't find it.

 



GENERAL DISQUALIFICATIONS

 

Alll Breeds & Varieties

 

1. Specimen lacking in breed characteristics.

 

Egg colour is a breed characteristic

 



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An emergency came up. Prayers needed. Be back on 4/28/14 or later.

Hall Family Farm specializes in Heritage breeds of poultry.

Buff Orpingtons are our favorite. We also have: Black, Blue and White Orpington, Australorp, Red Dorking

Dark Brahma, Buff Minorca, Arkansas Blues, American Buff Geese, Narragansett Turkeys.

Jahdan is working with several more.

 

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An emergency came up. Prayers needed. Be back on 4/28/14 or later.

Hall Family Farm specializes in Heritage breeds of poultry.

Buff Orpingtons are our favorite. We also have: Black, Blue and White Orpington, Australorp, Red Dorking

Dark Brahma, Buff Minorca, Arkansas Blues, American Buff Geese, Narragansett Turkeys.

Jahdan is working with several more.

 

highfive.gif  Hall Family Farm Swap Page celebrate.gif  Ark...yippiechickie.gif

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post #230 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYREDS View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by BarnGoddess01 View Post



If that is in the Standard, I would LOVE to know where because I can't find it.

 



GENERAL DISQUALIFICATIONS

 

Alll Breeds & Varieties

 

1. Specimen lacking in breed characteristics.

 

Egg colour is a breed characteristic

 



Good point!! So is it common then for judges to DQ a bird if they see an egg in the cage that is the wrong colour for that bird?

 

Working hard in Canada with Bearded Silkies (White, Blue/Splash, Porcelain), B/B/S Ameraucanas,  and Black/Blue Copper Marans

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Working hard in Canada with Bearded Silkies (White, Blue/Splash, Porcelain), B/B/S Ameraucanas,  and Black/Blue Copper Marans

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