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post #101 of 136


The devil is in the details my friend the devil IS in the details.  It is the unintended consequences that is the problem with these type of laws, business is the only one that sees them for what they are. You are about 35 or so and are old enough to have seen that laws that get passed as regulation are full of details and loopholes, not to mention unintended reactions contrary to the intent of the laws. It just turns out that way, they find ways to comply, get an exception or a special permit, it just happens. It is politics.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaEyes View Post

If nobody is doing the inhumane things these laws hope to end, then how are humane laws harmful?



 

post #102 of 136

But your stance seems to be that humane laws are a bad thing, yet the example you provided as an egg producer is for them. My opinion is that there are humane egg producers, but conducting their business humanely means that their costs are higher than those who do so inhumanely. I doubt the $0.99 per dozen eggs come from places run as well as Williamette, but their under-cutting competition is able to keep prices low by using questionable practices. When a culture moves forward with regards to ethics, there will always be some who lag behind, and in business, that can relate to bigger profits and driving out of business those who hold fast to their ethics. By enacting legislation to bring things to a higher minimum, we are leveling the playing field and eliminating the cheaters from making profit by means that are technically legal, but below the standards set by current societal values. This, I believe, is why the egg producer you cited as a reference stands behind advances in humane legislation -- to allow the family-farmer business ethics to remain profitable in today's market.

 

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post #103 of 136

Believe me, when the public turns against these egg producers because of the exposure on TV etc. There is no hiding place for them.

post #104 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaEyes View Post

But your stance seems to be that humane laws are a bad thing, yet the example you provided as an egg producer is for them. My opinion is that there are humane egg producers, but conducting their business humanely means that their costs are higher than those who do so inhumanely. I doubt the $0.99 per dozen eggs come from places run as well as Williamette, but their under-cutting competition is able to keep prices low by using questionable practices. When a culture moves forward with regards to ethics, there will always be some who lag behind, and in business, that can relate to bigger profits and driving out of business those who hold fast to their ethics. By enacting legislation to bring things to a higher minimum, we are leveling the playing field and eliminating the cheaters from making profit by means that are technically legal, but below the standards set by current societal values. This, I believe, is why the egg producer you cited as a reference stands behind advances in humane legislation -- to allow the family-farmer business ethics to remain profitable in today's market.

 

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trouble here  ....it will move those jobs overseas , where there are no controls....not even health wise.

 

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post #105 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaEyes View Post

If nobody is doing the inhumane things these laws hope to end, then how are humane laws harmful?



problem i see is ....who idea of what is humane , to some debeaking is not . other any bird caged isnot, other no sunlight to the birds isnot,other if birds can fight  at all it is.not........that what i seen wrong with our government passing all these new laws, that fell. some in government don't want any killed. 

 

i just think enforce the laws we have NOW.....that will take care of most


Edited by deerman - 2/10/12 at 2:02pm
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post #106 of 136


In theory that may work. I was at CostCo today the egg prices were $3.45 for 2 dozen, the organic eggs were $4.65 for 18 pak.  Now is that price reflective of cost to supply or by tigher regulation?

 

Some here advocate that little farms are being squeezed out.  When more regulations are added and directed at the big guys they in turn say wait a minute you need to put those rules on everyone to be fair in trade laws.  Now what happens is the little guy says hey I cannot afford that change in my operation and he is forced to either sell out to usually a bigger guy hence making him bigger or they go under which frees up a market share for the big guy to get bigger. In the end you have all big guys no little guys and a monopoly and power to run your farm as you see fit.  Then along comes the bleeding hearts and they say oh you need to treat them better, industry weighs out the legal costs and settles for a middle of the road compromise and in turn the industry who controls the egg price pass that cost on to the consumer. Then comes foreign eggs (if possible) and they put US egg farmers out of business because there is really no global law or way to enforce that except in tariffs and now you have a trade war and that usually starves out the businesses that cannot afford to sell their eggs at cost or less for a period of time that it takes to kill your competitors.

 

This is what usually happens when government gets in the business of regulating free market enterprises.  These are the things that send our jobs overseas.  Business is business and there is no place in business for emotional subjects it has no tangible cost or value associated with it and is driven by hype and fear.  If you ran a business that was say producing spiders and you killed these spiders in the course of your business ,most would not care but when trends make your spider a pet it now has rights and you now have to see to their welfare at the urging of those who see them as a pet even though you created those spiders for one specific purpose and that was to kill them.  It is all emotional and that is something relative similar to the idea that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaEyes View Post

But your stance seems to be that humane laws are a bad thing, yet the example you provided as an egg producer is for them. My opinion is that there are humane egg producers, but conducting their business humanely means that their costs are higher than those who do so inhumanely. I doubt the $0.99 per dozen eggs come from places run as well as Williamette, but their under-cutting competition is able to keep prices low by using questionable practices. When a culture moves forward with regards to ethics, there will always be some who lag behind, and in business, that can relate to bigger profits and driving out of business those who hold fast to their ethics. By enacting legislation to bring things to a higher minimum, we are leveling the playing field and eliminating the cheaters from making profit by means that are technically legal, but below the standards set by current societal values. This, I believe, is why the egg producer you cited as a reference stands behind advances in humane legislation -- to allow the family-farmer business ethics to remain profitable in today's market.

 

smile.png



 

post #107 of 136

Eggs are nutritious and uncomplicated as well as versatile. People swear they can tell a free range egg from a battery produced egg. People love the idea of chickens happily living in fields with adequate protection at night from the cold and foxes. They also love the idea of feeding their children a high standard product, as unadulterated as it was many years ago. It's what is known as the 'feel good factor' and it's effect on people's purchasing choices is incalculable. 10 years ago, free range, organic eggs were left on the shelf in favour of the much cheaper alternative. Now the reverse is true, and people would not own up to buying cheaper eggs even if they did. Really good eggs are a little luxury that even the less well off can afford, despite these challenging times we live in. 

post #108 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfoundland View Post

Eggs are nutritious and uncomplicated as well as versatile. People swear they can tell a free range egg from a battery produced egg. People love the idea of chickens happily living in fields with adequate protection at night from the cold and foxes. They also love the idea of feeding their children a high standard product, as unadulterated as it was many years ago. It's what is known as the 'feel good factor' and it's effect on people's purchasing choices is incalculable. 10 years ago, free range, organic eggs were left on the shelf in favour of the much cheaper alternative. Now the reverse is true, and people would not own up to buying cheaper eggs even if they did. Really good eggs are a little luxury that even the less well off can afford, despite these challenging times we live in. 


All true - to a point.  Limited finances are still a controlling factor for many families.
 

 

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post #109 of 136

According to the Worldwatch Institute, 74 percent of the world's poultry meat, and 68 percent of eggs are produced in ways that are described as 'intensive'.[2]

 

This is not specific to the US, but it still shows how reliant the markets are upon intensive production.   Change is going to take a long, long time.  The extent to which people, world wide, are willing/able to pay substantially higher egg/poultry prices in a move away from intensive farming practices is suspect.  

 

 

 

 

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post #110 of 136


Yep, another example of the wealthy dictating policy for the poor. Government policy designed to help the poor but put it out of reach of them to satisfy an emotion harbored by the wealthy.  In the US our government was not designed for such abuses. The UK I am not sure.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred's Hens View Post

According to the Worldwatch Institute, 74 percent of the world's poultry meat, and 68 percent of eggs are produced in ways that are described as 'intensive'.[2]

 

This is not specific to the US, but it still shows how reliant the markets are upon intensive production.   Change is going to take a long, long time.  The extent to which people, world wide, are willing/able to pay substantially higher egg/poultry prices in a move away from intensive farming practices is suspect.  

 

 



 

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