Iowa Blues Chicken Club (IBCC) - Breed Standard Discussion / Club Discussion - Page 15

LOL I've avoided Facebook for the most part until now, but I do find it seems to be a quicker way to get decisions made. The Standard Committe has been at work to get the Standards finalized, but we've had some recent input that I think we need to look at. There has been a theory stated that Birchen is not supposed to be part of the standard at all. (This comment is attributed to Glenn Drowns of Sandhill who I think is the leading expert on Iowa Blues and knows what they are supposed to look like) The only time black chicks appeared was sex-link black from chicks created from Iowa Blue crosses.

I just sent an email to the committee but I'll post it here as well to get additional input.

I have been trying to figure out where my little yellow chicks came from as this is the first I’ve seen them. 

Now this picture is a ringneck pheasant chick borrowed from a hatchery catalog:

These are mine from the NYD hatch.

Most of you are familiar with the story, but I’ll quote it here:  “a White Leghorn hen went broody and hid under a building to brood her chicks. When she finally came out she had a group of chicks that were unlike any chicks in the area. Some were colored chestnut, but others looked like pheasant chicks, with light yellow, horizontal stripes on their cheeks, and a triangle of yellow under their chins, with black stripes down their backs. Some of the old timers that are familiar with the breed would tell you that the breed was sired by a pheasant.”

Any thoughts?

Kari I got 8 total from the hatch 4 penciled and 4 birchen I didn't get any of those yellow guys. If the old story is true one would have to wonder how the birchen color came about. 

Its an interesting story, but I strongly doubt any Pheasant ancestry, this could be resolved with DNA tests though, and probably should be done. To either substantiate it or put it to rest.

I am hoping for some hatching eggs or chicks this spring. I may place an order with Sand Hill and also look for some hatching eggs from someone here. I would like to end the season with about 20 pullets and two roosters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pickledchicken 

Kari I got 8 total from the hatch 4 penciled and 4 birchen I didn't get any of those yellow guys. If the old story is true one would have to wonder how the birchen color came about. 

 Not to knock the hatcheries, but there are some theories about that too. I guess I should point out that when I say Hatchery, I'm not talking about Sandhill Preservation Center.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Levi 

Its an interesting story, but I strongly doubt any Pheasant ancestry, this could be resolved with DNA tests though, and probably should be done. To either substantiate it or put it to rest.

 

I am hoping for some hatching eggs or chicks this spring. I may place an order with Sand Hill and also look for some hatching eggs from someone here. I would like to end the season with about 20 pullets and two roosters.

 Oh, I doubt pheasant ancestry too, but I don't doubt the yellow chicks. The point I was trying to make was the original chicks could have been yellow and maybe we should not be culling those. Jake, what birds do you have now, just Icelandics?

Thom,

In reference to your comment about the birds having a blue irredesent look to them. I wanted to add that my first Iowa Blues from Glen Drowns exhibited this same blue sheen. While the birds that I got from Ideal did not. They showed a green irredesence when in the light. In my experience and opinion, I think the birds should exhibit this blue sheen. Also, the grey pencilled hens that I recieved from Glen exhibited a blueish cast when viewed from a distance. The feathering on the hens showed a lot of tiny grey and white stippling throughout with a whitish-silver lacing on many of the breast feathers. This grey and white is what gave a blue cast from a distance.

In reference to your birds, where did you obtain your stock from?

After talking with Kari lastnight and putting some thought into her idea, I'm thinking she may be on to something. The grey pencilled birds (both that I've raised from Glens stock, and the pictures I've seen of his stock) look closer in appearance to a silver partridge pattern without the salmon breast than a silver pencilled pattern. I think it's very possible we could be dealing with a silver partridge with a gene that's removing the salmon breast. This would also explain the occasional hens that show up a very dark grey-black with white hackle and breast lacing. Is it possible these darker hens were mistaken for a poorly marked birchen? Kari has a wonderful picture of one of these dark hens. When I had a dark pullets show up in my Glen birds they looked like extremely dark silver pencilled birds. Of course, without the salmon on the chest.

What are your guys' thoughts on this?

Well let's see...we know the" chipmunk-like" striping of chick down is the presence of e+ or jungle fowl allele when not affected by other genes that might cause dilution or enhancement in some other way.  Would this be an apt description of the chicks supposedly hatched by the leghorn hen, however I wonder how much credibility we can attach to the "lore". 

 Can we assume that IBs, once described as great homestead dual purpose birds, have been heavily affected by random outcrossing on family farms for the past 80 years. 

I too cannot understand why there weren't any black chicks mentioned, when Birchen seems to be the staple pattern now prevelent in the breed, of which the chicks do have black down.  Are we to assume that silver penciled was the primary pattern of the original line? 

I'm sure you guys have been all through this in the early stages of your talks, so please don''t take the time to rehash this for my benefit.  I'm just sort of thinking out loud at the moment.

So what would the yellow chick down represent - white, diluted silver, wheaten for ex.   Brown chicks??? doesn't silver actually originate from the brown allele (modified)?  This is all very difficult to figure out, sort of a genetic rubics cube!   You guys have your work cut out! 

I am going to re-read all the posts on IBCC that deal with the subjects of pattern and color.

My understanding of the color genetics is limited and I'm not fully understanding the chick down/adult plumage relationships with 100% accuracy. However, I did recieve and hatch out from Glen's birds some black downed chicks. They grew up however, into both the grey pattern I described above as well as the dark "birchenish" colored hens.

Is it possible we aren't dealing with silver pencilled and birchen at all, but rather a silver partridge with a gene modifier that's unique to the Iowa Blue breed?

Maybe we should be steering for a light silver-grey partridge (lacking the salmon breast) and a dark-grey partridge as two varieties within the breed?

Also, is birchen a sex-link color. Meaning, can you use it to produce sex-linked offspring like you can with the silver partridge/pencilled?

Kari, when you get a chance, can you post the picture of that little birchenish pullet that we talked about (the one I told you resembled my old birds), alongside a close up pic of your silver hen we really liked the day I visited? That would allow for a side by side visual of what I'm referring to here.