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GA Woman Shoots Neighbors Dog - Page 6

post #51 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capvin View Post

That is really a tough one and I really do not know who to side with.  I know that personally I could not tie a dog to a tree and shot it and the way it was done here was three to the head sort of execution style.  On the other side of the coin the woman raised rabbits and was certainly angry and distraught when she saw one of her own pets dead.  The reality here is that no one is going to win regardless of right and wrong.  Robert Frost said "Good fences make good neighbors."  But in addition dog owners also have an obligation to keep their pets out of other people's property.  I am afraid that in this situation, both parties were wrong.



I agree too. Well said! MiF

"I sometimes wonder if the world is run by smart people who are putting us on,or by imbeciles who really mean it."
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post #52 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by dainerra View Post

I would like to see what states allow you to kill the dog after the fact?    I have researched about 3 dozen states over the years and have yet to see one that allows that.   It would be good to know for when others ask.

 

 

 

Texas:

Quote:
42.092. Cruelty to Nonlivestock Animals
 
(b) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly:
 
(1) tortures an animal or in a cruel manner kills or causes serious bodily injury to an animal;
(2) without the owner's effective consent, kills, administers poison to, or causes serious bodily injury to an animal;
(3) fails unreasonably to provide necessary food, water, care, or shelter for an animal in the person's custody;
(4) abandons unreasonably an animal in the person's custody;
(5) transports or confines an animal in a cruel manner;
(6) without the owner's effective consent, causes bodily injury to an animal;
(7) causes one animal to fight with another animal, if either animal is not a dog;
(8) uses a live animal as a lure in dog race training or in dog coursing on a racetrack; or
(9) seriously overworks an animal.
 
(e) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (b)(2) or (6) that:
(1) the animal was discovered on the person's property in the act of or after injuring or killing the person's livestock animals or damaging the person's crops and that the person killed or injured the animal at the time of this discovery; or
(2) the person killed or injured the animal within the scope of the person's employment as a public servant or in furtherance of activities or operations associated with electricity transmission or distribution, electricity generation or operations associated with the generation of electricity, or natural gas delivery.

 

I didn't cherry pick state laws. I looked up the Texas law (where the original poster in a different thread is located) to dispel some more legal myths and just happened to notice that it allowed one to kill/injure a dog after the fact.

 

And at least Kansas at one point:

 

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/dog-book/chapter9-2.html

Quote:
A dog is not, however, necessarily safe as soon as it leaves the farmer's property. In general, a farmer who wants retaliation is allowed to pursue a dog for a "reasonable time." What is a reasonable time under the circumstances is a question that's resolved when the lawsuit gets to court.
 
For example, a Kansas jury vindicated a farmer who shot and wounded a dog he found attacking his hogs. He shot at the dog, but it ran away, with the farmer in hot pursuit in his pickup. The dog ran home, where the farmer shot it twice and left it hiding, wounded, under the house. When the dog's owner came home, he rushed the dog to a veterinarian; it eventually recovered from its injury. The owner sued for almost $8,000, but the jury came back with a verdict for the farmer. 5 The Kansas statute allows a livestock owner to kill a dog that has been found injuring livestock "a reasonable time" before.

 

When I say pursuing, I mean that the dog was caught in the act and you shoot the dog but don't kill it.   You are expected to try to either finish the dog off or contact the owner.  Otherwise, you face the risk of animal cruelty charges.

 

No, if you wound the dog and stop the attack, your livestock defense is no longer valid. Hunting down a dog you wounded to finish it off would be animal cruelty. Unless, of course, your state allows you to kill a dog after the fact. In many states, euthanizing an injured animal is something ordinary citizens are no longer allowed to do. That applies to [about to become] roadkill too.

post #53 of 69

Why is shooting the restrained dog cruel?  Is placing a chicken in a cone then dispatching it quickly cruel?  Is placing a cow or hog in a chute and bolting it or cutting its throat cruel?  Seems to me this was a method to ensure a quick death.  

 

The lady who killed this dog was probably highly emotional at the time.  I doubt she was thinking clearly.  However, she did dispatch the animal in a quick manner.  The "cruelty" part of the equation is purely our emotional reaction to someone killing a "pet".  If it had been a food animal no one would have cared.

 

If it had been a "icky" reptile, snake, etc.  no one would have cared.   It was a pet, so people got upset.

 

Here in South Carolina many of my hunter friends will shoot a dog on their property in a second.  Why?  "That there dog might scare off my buck."  They do not care if the dog has a collar or not.  Of course if the DNR, or sheriff asks they would never admit it.

 

My neighbors dog was killing our chickens.  We had proof, we saw it happen.  The owner of the dogs saw it happen.  My chicken coop is 1500 feet from that neighbors house, across a heavily traveled road.  Personally, I think the dog owner is cruel for not keeping the dog in a fence or in the house.  Risking the dogs getting hit by a car, or shot by the neighbor.  Back to the point, I was going to shoot these dogs the next time I saw them.  My wife said, "No".  She spoke to the neighbors.  The dogs are now on a run.  The neighbors paid to replace the chickens.  (of course they didn't pay for the loss of eggs for 7 months and the future stew meat we lost)

 

This is my opinion and is worth what you paid for it.

Sincerely,

 

Blueferral

 

 

 

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Sincerely,

 

Blueferral

 

 

 

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post #54 of 69

Last year I had two dogs come in my pasture.  They killed 26 chickens.I had been out there 30 minutes earlier  everyone  was fine.   I didn't see the dogs but a neighbor saw a pitbull and a chihuahua cross carrying a chicken in its mouth down the road.   I went door to door looking for the dogs. No one knew anything.  I let everyone know if the dogs came back they would be coming home next time.   I have never seen those dogs again. 

These were not cheap chickens  (black copper Marans)  I wouldn't think twice about shooting them!!!!!!!!!!!!

I really dislike people who let their dogs run free.... A good dog can go bad very quickly when joining up with other dogs.  It becomes a game.  It sure doesn't help the animal they killed or disemboweled alive or chase a new born foal into a wire fence.   My horses will try to kill any dog that comes into the pasture they have been hassled so much by dogs. 

It a fact if you live in the country keep your dogs at home   It may not come home after its evening romp....

 

post #55 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnylady View Post

Let's not forget about the fully-grown puppy of this one-and-a-half-year-old dog that was traumatized by watching its mother get shot . . . . Anybody want to bet that she shot the wrong dog?



 x3

post #56 of 69

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnylady View Post

Let's not forget about the fully-grown puppy of this one-and-a-half-year-old dog that was traumatized by watching its mother get shot . . . . Anybody want to bet that she shot the wrong dog?

 


That seems like a stretch to me.

These are dogs we're talking about, not humans

 

From the OP article:

 

Quote:

Thomas said she found the dogs on the inside of a fenced in area near the rabbit cages.

Suzanne Thomas said when she came out and found her pet rabbit dead all she could think about was shooting the dog. She is convinced the dog killed her pet rabbit.
 

 

One other point, if you read your comment carefully, you'll see those owners must have bred their dog when IT was still a puppy, because that is the only way a one and a half year old dog CAN have a "full grown puppy"

 

Pretty irresponsible on their part


 


Edited by Bear Foot Farm - 2/20/12 at 12:08am
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post #57 of 69


  It was only a BUNNY?!?! So I guess if the dog had killed 1 hundred bunnies instead of 1 , then she would have beeen justified?  You find my dog in your yard and consider him a threat to you or yours? I'll pay you for the BULLET! and yes, my neighbors all have been assured of this. No Excuses! They are also made aware that we have small livestock on our property that we VALUE and protect accordingly. (and Legally)

  No cruelty here, she tie the dog up to make sure she didn't miss and possibly risk a stray bullet doing harm.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoultryQueen29 View Post

The only thing I can say to this is she's sick. I think that was a gigantic overreaction for a bunny. I mean it's not even your dog and you have no evidence that the dog did anything! You cant just go around shooting other peoples dogs! I realize she was upset but come on there are a billion other alternatives. To me there is no excuse for something like that and she deserves to be in prison. Think about what you guys would do if that was your dog! Bunny vs. someone else's dog. I think that means anything but kill the dog! I also agree the neighbor should control the dog better but that still doesn't equal the dog dying by 3 shots to the head.



 

post #58 of 69

 

Quote:

you have no evidence that the dog did anything!

Did you read the article?

How much evidence is required?

 

Quote:

Thomas said she found the dogs on the inside of a fenced in area near the rabbit cages.

Suzanne Thomas said when she came out and found her pet rabbit dead all she could think about was shooting the dog. She is convinced the dog killed her pet rabbit.
 

 

 

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post #59 of 69

Emotions are one thing, laws another, and just plain common sense is yet another.And consideration of the rights and yes, feelings of someone else, another matter, as well.

 

Dog owner was wrong if dog was allowed to run loose with his knowledge. The story doesn't say that this was the case or not. Maybe to dog had gotten out, usually being confined. Who of us haven't had that happen, an animal we normally keep up, gets out.. 

 

But, the legal burden IS on the woman that shot it.

* She didn't witness the attack...there were two dogs. The story doesn't even say there was blood on the dog. She doesn't know the dog she shot is the dog that killed the rabbit.

*At that point, there was no immediate attack. That the dog was obviously gentle enough for her to catch and tie up nor anything else in the story suggests she was in any fear of the dog herself.

*Once tied up, she had the animal under control...it could not continue any attack and wasn't at risk of running away, escaping. And she knew the animal belonged to the neighbor.

*She had to go get a gun. Time to think, not an immediate act in the heat of a moment.

* Even if a person had murdered another person, once the offender is restrained and in safe custody, the murder victim's family can't legally shoot and kill him.

*AT THAT POINT SHE HAD MOVED FROM PROTECTING HER PROPERTY, TO A CALCULATED ACT OF VENGEANCE AGAINST AN ANIMAL THAT WAS NOT A THREAT, AND THAT SHE KNEW BELONGED TO HER NEIGHBOR, WAS HIS PROPERTY.

* There is no mention of her claiming this was a repeat offense, and therefore that the owner had any reason to suspect this might happen. The owner claims there had been no history of the dog attacking other animals. anything unrelated to this incident, such as the dog had a grown puppy, is irrelevant. It adds no justifcation to her shooting the dog, or the owner's responsiblity for the incident.

* Killing the dog would not bring her rabbit back. Killing the dog just deprived the other owner of his dog, his property. Her act was of vengeance against that owner, as well as the dog.

*Under many, even most, state/local laws, at that point, she was legally obligated to contact police, to record the indicident and make sure the owner was informed. The owner likely would have been fined and had to pay for the rabbit.

 

As for her emotional attachment to the rabbit, the rabbit is DEAD, nothing is going to change that.

The other person's dog was ALIVE, killing it wouldn't bring the rabbit back to life, and she was inflicting DELIBERATELY hurt and loss upon HIM, though his part in her own loss was not deliberate.

 

When it comes to protecting/defending our livestock, especially shooting dogs, both law and common sense and respect for others tell us this kind of matter is quite different from feral running dogs, repeated attacks, unknown owners, or owners that have been informed and warned their dogs are doing harm, and have ignored it.

 

If my, or your dog, usually confined, got out and did something like this, wouldn't we want the chance to make it good as best you can, and keep the dog up better?  In my opnion, it is WRONG to assume the dog owner doesn't care, wouldn't react responsibly, make good our damages and make sure it doesn't happen again...we would want that chance, I think we should give that to others.

 

Should any dog that kills or would kill a chicken or rabbit be destroyed? NO! As long as an owner isn't willfully letting that happen, he/she has a right to keep their dog.

 

I'm for throwing the book at the woman.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #60 of 69

 

Quote:

But, the legal burden IS on the woman that shot it.

 

* She didn't witness the attack...there were two dogs. The story doesn't even say there was blood on the dog. She doesn't know the dog she shot is the dog that killed the rabbit.

*At that point, there was no immediate attack. That the dog was obviously gentle enough for her to catch and tie up nor anything else in the story suggests she was in any fear of the dog herself.

*Once tied up, she had the animal under control...it could not continue any attack and wasn't at risk of running away, escaping. And she knew the animal belonged to the neighbor.

*She had to go get a gun. Time to think, not an immediate act in the heat of a moment.

* Even if a person had murdered another person, once the offender is restrained and in safe custody, the murder victim's family can't legally shoot and kill him.

 

*AT THAT POINT SHE HAD MOVED FROM PROTECTING HER PROPERTY, TO A CALCULATED ACT OF VENGEANCE AGAINST AN ANIMAL THAT WAS NOT A THREAT, AND THAT SHE KNEW BELONGED TO HER NEIGHBOR, WAS HIS PROPERTY.

* There is no mention of her claiming this was a repeat offense, and therefore that the owner had any reason to suspect this might happen. The owner claims there had been no history of the dog attacking other animals. anything unrelated to this incident, such as the dog had a grown puppy, is irrelevant. It adds no justifcation to her shooting the dog, or the owner's responsiblity for the incident.

 

* Killing the dog would not bring her rabbit back. Killing the dog just deprived the other owner of his dog, his property. Her act was of vengeance against that owner, as well as the dog.

 

*Under many, even most, state/local laws, at that point, she was legally obligated to contact police, to record the indicident and make sure the owner was informed. The owner likely would have been fined and had to pay for the rabbit.

It really doesn't matter if every little detail isn't given in the news report, so it's not logical to assume any thing else

Comparing it to the killing of a human is pointless also, since the same laws do not apply

 

The dogs were INSIDE her fence with the dead rabbit.

That's all the evidence SHE needed.

 

You claim "the dog was gentle enough " to catch and tie, but I've seen AC officers catch and tie VISCIOUS animals with a pole and a rope.

Again, you're making assumptions when details weren't given

 

If you have some examples of the law THERE, or any other laws that require reporting it rather than killing the animal, please post links for us to see

 

Otherwise it's all based on speculation

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