run mud smells like a pig's sty and low tide.... - Page 2  

Dig out the top layer mabe about 6 to 12 inches fill it back with some other type of soil and make sure to angle it so water doesnt sit there.  I never thought i'd say i was happy to have crushed slate about 2 inches deep in my yard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackson41 

We also have heavy clay soil.  We put down about 4 inches of sand and top dress it every year with about a fresh inch of sand after raking out the top layer.  No smell what so ever!

Wow  that should result in a nice bed of concrete over time 

How many years will it take to become concrete? My girls will really miss their dust baths!

Basically, there are two approaches.  Either you dig the soured soil out and replace it with something else or you improve the soil by letting the chickens work to incorporate organic matter for you.  Personally, I'd rather fix the soil.  It's cheap to free, you generate compost that you can transfer elsewhere in the yard to nourish plants, and it gives the run a nice, natural look.  My chickens enjoy scratching in their leaves.  They go crazy when I dump in a bag moving those leaves all around.  And if you really want to see chicken madness, toss a bit of scratch on the pile.  And yes, a bit of hole-poking (a great job for kids...) or tilling to get some air into that sour mess will speed up the process.  And no, my chickens can't take a dustbath in their run.  BUT, they get to go out for a while pretty much daily and there is a fantastic dust bathing area under our deck where they can satisfy that requirement with some super dusty soil.

FWIW, if you don't have enough leaves, post a Freecycle ad in the fall offering to rake and take leaves and/or pine needles and you'll get more than enough.

I had that problem also, we used sand.

dont know about that....I was being half sarcastic but sand and clay are 2 of 3 ingridients in plasters etc so I imagine it will become hard over time...I vote for improving the soil as well but my version would include areas being able to have rest periods as well.  Like in paddock systems.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackson41 

How many years will it take to become concrete? My girls will really miss their dust baths!

Quote:

Originally Posted by organick 

dont know about that....I was being half sarcastic but sand and clay are 2 of 3 ingridients in plasters etc so I imagine it will become hard over time...I vote for improving the soil as well but my version would include areas being able to have rest periods as well.  Like in paddock systems.

 

 

There's no reason to think it will "become concrete" by putting sand on TOP of clay.

Putting ENOUGH sand, and mixing it in, will loosen the clay to allow drainage

Plaster has only Lime and sand, and has no Clay at all

Cement is mostly Limestone with only tiny amounts of Clay

Adding organic materials will simply cause the area to hold more water.

If the area is built up with sand, it should stay dry enough to keep the odors down.

If Lime isn't helping, you're not using enough

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Foot Farm 

Quote:

There's no reason to think it will "become concrete" by putting sand on TOP of clay.

Putting ENOUGH sand, and mixing it in, will loosen the clay to allow drainage

 

Plaster has only Lime and sand, and has no Clay at all

Cement is mostly Limestone with only tiny amounts of Clay

 

Adding organic materials will simply cause the area to hold more water.

 

If the area is built up with sand, it should stay dry enough to keep the odors down.

 

If Lime isn't helping, you're not using enough

 

clay and sand are both used in cob building......the combination of sand and clay will not result in loose clay.    it will become more bonding......I have clay soil and the last thing i would add to my garden would be sand

from Wash ST U

"When one mixes a sandy and a clay soil together, the
large pore spaces of the sandy soil are filled with the smaller clay particles. This results in a heavier,
denser soil with less total pore space than either the sandy or the clay soil alone."

http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%20chalker-scott/horticultural%20myths_files/Myths/Amendments%202.pdf

I don't know if this helps or not, but when I suggested sand I wasn't suggesting mixing it in- I was suggesting to put a nice thick layer of it for the chickens to be walking on.

I have done this out in the run at my house with terrible mud- I dump every year 4 bags of play sand along my walkways and near the waterers to keep the chickens' feet and my feet from getting those terrible "mud shoes with suction."

I have read that if you mix clay and sand together it worsens soil drainage/makes concrete. But with just sand on top I would think that would help???

Maybe a layer of gravel underneath would assist. But I have read others say that when putting gravel under sand the chickens stir it up and the gravel pokes through too much (sharp for their feet to be standing on all day).

Definitely all these amendments are expensive and maybe you could experiment with a tiny area in the run with whatever you decide before committing a lot of labor and money to haul truckloads in.

These are my thoughts/experiences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Foot Farm 

...

 

Adding organic materials will simply cause the area to hold more water....

 

This is incorrect.  I could site a hundred more but here are three sources to back up my statements about amending the soil with organic matter like leaves:

http://www.finegardening.com/how-to/articles/improving-clay-soils.aspx

http://www.pallensmith.com/articles/amending-garden-soil

http://www.bachmans.com/Garden-Care/divHomePage.html?cnb=GardenCare&categoryCode=02&pageIndex=_pageIndexToken_workingWithClaySoil

Bottom line, it works.  And yes, mixing fine sand into clay soil is just asking for trouble.  You can use some coarse sand but it's not enough by itself.  The soil needs organic matter to loosen it up so the water can soak in rather than puddling on top and most importantly, so there are air pockets.