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I am so confused???! Does this mean chickens are not allowed?

post #1 of 13
2/27/12 at 10:02pm
Thread Starter 

Hello.  My husband and I are moving cross-country due to a military move.  We are looking to put an offer in on a home we really like.  It has a 1.5 acre lot.  It is zoned for 4 horses.  This is what the housing subdivision stated (protective convenants and restrictions):

 

 

"The lots within this subdivision are zoned Residential by Santa Fe County, and may be used and maintained only for residential use.  Owners may keep no more than (4) horses per lot.  No other livestock is permitted, except that owners may keep no more than two animals (lambs or calves only) when doing so as part of a 4-H or FFA school project.  No other kind of livestock is permitted, and there shall be no commercial business of farming for raising livestock.  All livestock must be kept in an enclosed area not less than forty feet by forty feet, and located no closer than twenty-five feet to any lot line.  All livestock myst have approved shelter to maintain a healthy animal.  Any fence constructed must be of sound construction and safe design; all fences must be approved by the Architectural Control Committee and/or Developer.  It is further understood that if any should become offensive, contemptible or obnoxious at any time the Homeowners Association and/or Developer will serve notice to said owner to reduce the density of animals."  
 
Are chicken considered livestock here?  I cannot imagine giving up my 8 chickens.  I also am wondering if the word "livestock" identifies larger animals such as cows and pigs.  
 
I noticed another section also states you can appeal any amendments and the homeowners can vote; 75% of the vote will lead to an amendment.  
 
How would you take this?  Are chickens "livestock," or are they referring to pigs/cows/etc?  I don't eat my chickens, they are pets.  I'm also wondering if they would be considered "fowl" and not "livestock."  
 
 
 
Thanks for any advice  :)  It is much appreciated!!  

 

Shares a home with my wonderful military husband, 2 horses, 3 dogs (Golden Retriever, Australian Shepherd, Great Pyrenees), 2 cats,

2 EEs

1 golden comet

1 rhode island red

1 buff orphington,

1 barred rock

1 golden lakenvelder/vorwerk

2 black silkies 

Reply

Shares a home with my wonderful military husband, 2 horses, 3 dogs (Golden Retriever, Australian Shepherd, Great Pyrenees), 2 cats,

2 EEs

1 golden comet

1 rhode island red

1 buff orphington,

1 barred rock

1 golden lakenvelder/vorwerk

2 black silkies 

Reply

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post #2 of 13
2/27/12 at 10:06pm

I'm going to take a guess that chickens are included in livestock.  You would need to contact the Homeowner's Association to make sure, but I've seen a lot of these equine subdivisions and they get pretty picky about anything other than horses being brought in.

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post #3 of 13
2/27/12 at 10:23pm
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bnjrob View Post

I'm going to take a guess that chickens are included in livestock.  You would need to contact the Homeowner's Association to make sure, but I've seen a lot of these equine subdivisions and they get pretty picky about anything other than horses being brought in.



Thank you for your response.  I can't believe they will allow 4 horses but not 8 little chickens, mostly tiny silkies sad.png  

Shares a home with my wonderful military husband, 2 horses, 3 dogs (Golden Retriever, Australian Shepherd, Great Pyrenees), 2 cats,

2 EEs

1 golden comet

1 rhode island red

1 buff orphington,

1 barred rock

1 golden lakenvelder/vorwerk

2 black silkies 

Reply

Shares a home with my wonderful military husband, 2 horses, 3 dogs (Golden Retriever, Australian Shepherd, Great Pyrenees), 2 cats,

2 EEs

1 golden comet

1 rhode island red

1 buff orphington,

1 barred rock

1 golden lakenvelder/vorwerk

2 black silkies 

Reply
post #4 of 13
2/28/12 at 6:56am

Get it in writing.

I went into City Hall here and spoke with the clerks (who pretty much run this tiny town).
I was told "oh, yes, chickens are fine".

Fast-forward two years I received a letter in the mail demanding my appearance at a town meeting for "chickens at large creating a nuisance". [my chickens are NEVER loose nor at large - and I only have 10, big deal]

I went in early and spoke with the clerks and no one remembered me asking two years ago but they 'decided' it'd be OK to have them since I don't have a roo. I should have gotten it in writing on my very first visit but I had them print out the city ordinance concerning livestock in case this comes up again.

 

When I saw that portion of your local ordinance: "if any should become offensive, contemptible or obnoxious at any time" I decided it was all written by one person and then passed by the council. Only someone with a shaky grasp of legal language would use such redundancy.

 

"... everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms -- to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way. Viktor Frankl, concentration camp survivor
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"... everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms -- to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way. Viktor Frankl, concentration camp survivor
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post #5 of 13
2/28/12 at 7:05am

These subdivisions think that having horses equates to wealth - because horses are pretty expensive to keep compared to other animals.  So the homeowner's associations are willing to overlook horse manure and flies because they are putting on airs that they can afford to have horses - whereas chicken owners can get a stigma of poor, trashy people who's house will look the the Beverly Hillbillies cars and the HOA thinks they'll bring down the value of the other homes.  It's ridiculous.

 

The homeowner's restrictions will trump any city/county ordinances, so talking with the president of the homeowner's association is the way to go if you are really set on this house.  You might have the realtor feel things out for you. 

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post #6 of 13
2/28/12 at 7:07am

This is a HOA, not a city matter.  In some cases, the HOA are worse to deal with and are quite empowered.  Caution in every respect.  I personally would never buy a house in a condo, HMO, etc.  Just not my personality.

 

 

Practicing Sustainable Agriculture At The 45th Parallel

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Practicing Sustainable Agriculture At The 45th Parallel

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post #7 of 13
2/28/12 at 9:10am

I'd be looking for another place if I were you.  Most of the people who I've seen on here saying they have to get rid of their birds have very similar rules.  I personally would never live in an area with HOAs cause they can and will change the rules to suit their interest.  and in most cases, chickens are not in their interest.   Keep looking!

 

http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/681654/michigan-chickenstock-2013-planning-ahead

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http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/681654/michigan-chickenstock-2013-planning-ahead

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post #8 of 13
2/29/12 at 9:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmopolis Chick View Post

Get it in writing.

I went into City Hall here and spoke with the clerks (who pretty much run this tiny town).
I was told "oh, yes, chickens are fine".

Fast-forward two years I received a letter in the mail demanding my appearance at a town meeting for "chickens at large creating a nuisance". [my chickens are NEVER loose nor at large - and I only have 10, big deal]

I went in early and spoke with the clerks and no one remembered me asking two years ago but they 'decided' it'd be OK to have them since I don't have a roo. I should have gotten it in writing on my very first visit but I had them print out the city ordinance concerning livestock in case this comes up again.

 

When I saw that portion of your local ordinance: "if any should become offensive, contemptible or obnoxious at any time" I decided it was all written by one person and then passed by the council. Only someone with a shaky grasp of legal language would use such redundancy.

 

Uggghh!  That stinks.  Glad you could keep them!
 

 

Shares a home with my wonderful military husband, 2 horses, 3 dogs (Golden Retriever, Australian Shepherd, Great Pyrenees), 2 cats,

2 EEs

1 golden comet

1 rhode island red

1 buff orphington,

1 barred rock

1 golden lakenvelder/vorwerk

2 black silkies 

Reply

Shares a home with my wonderful military husband, 2 horses, 3 dogs (Golden Retriever, Australian Shepherd, Great Pyrenees), 2 cats,

2 EEs

1 golden comet

1 rhode island red

1 buff orphington,

1 barred rock

1 golden lakenvelder/vorwerk

2 black silkies 

Reply
post #9 of 13
2/29/12 at 9:45am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnjrob View Post

These subdivisions think that having horses equates to wealth - because horses are pretty expensive to keep compared to other animals.  So the homeowner's associations are willing to overlook horse manure and flies because they are putting on airs that they can afford to have horses - whereas chicken owners can get a stigma of poor, trashy people who's house will look the the Beverly Hillbillies cars and the HOA thinks they'll bring down the value of the other homes.  It's ridiculous.

 

The homeowner's restrictions will trump any city/county ordinances, so talking with the president of the homeowner's association is the way to go if you are really set on this house.  You might have the realtor feel things out for you. 


Thanks for the advice.  I asked my realtor and he said chickens "should be fine," but I would like it in writing.  Most of the homes we are looking to buy are in these types of communities.  The area we are moving to is not very "safe," and I feel more comfortable in these neighborhoods. We have 3 horses and they make a WHOLE lot more of a mess than my little chickens!  UGGHH!!!!  It is ridiculous!    

 

Shares a home with my wonderful military husband, 2 horses, 3 dogs (Golden Retriever, Australian Shepherd, Great Pyrenees), 2 cats,

2 EEs

1 golden comet

1 rhode island red

1 buff orphington,

1 barred rock

1 golden lakenvelder/vorwerk

2 black silkies 

Reply

Shares a home with my wonderful military husband, 2 horses, 3 dogs (Golden Retriever, Australian Shepherd, Great Pyrenees), 2 cats,

2 EEs

1 golden comet

1 rhode island red

1 buff orphington,

1 barred rock

1 golden lakenvelder/vorwerk

2 black silkies 

Reply
post #10 of 13
2/29/12 at 9:45am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred's Hens View Post

This is a HOA, not a city matter.  In some cases, the HOA are worse to deal with and are quite empowered.  Caution in every respect.  I personally would never buy a house in a condo, HMO, etc.  Just not my personality.



I am hoping they will be flexible.  We will see  :(  

Shares a home with my wonderful military husband, 2 horses, 3 dogs (Golden Retriever, Australian Shepherd, Great Pyrenees), 2 cats,

2 EEs

1 golden comet

1 rhode island red

1 buff orphington,

1 barred rock

1 golden lakenvelder/vorwerk

2 black silkies 

Reply

Shares a home with my wonderful military husband, 2 horses, 3 dogs (Golden Retriever, Australian Shepherd, Great Pyrenees), 2 cats,

2 EEs

1 golden comet

1 rhode island red

1 buff orphington,

1 barred rock

1 golden lakenvelder/vorwerk

2 black silkies 

Reply
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Free range? Yea or nay?
BackYard Chickens › BYC Forum › Raising BackYard Chickens › Local Chicken Laws & Ordinances (and how to change them) › I am so confused???! Does this mean chickens are not allowed?