Actually, Pheomelanin is not red, but Gold. Gold is diluted to red with an enhancer (making it darker) there are two Enhancers: Red (Mahogany) and Dark (Near-Black)

Wildtype pheomelanin has no red gene.

This always reminds me of an incredibly common error - 'New Hampshire Red' - Not only does the NH not properly called 'Red', but no strains ever carry a single Red enhancer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducks and Banny hens 

Wildtype pheomelanin has no red gene.

      Pheomelanin is not a color or a gene.  It is a pigment.

 this is all fascinating. I love genetics. It's really hard to describe Snowflake's color, but it's not white. It's pale, pale, pale grey and soft cream somehow at the same time. It just looks soft.  

Alohachickens, I might have to take you up on that offer lol! We're full to bursting with chicks at the moment, but as soon as the we have more coops... I love Swedish flower hens, but i'm nervous about the whole crooked toe thing after coughing up $20 per chick. I really like the bright oranges of the Alohas.

What Color Cochin am I - or Can I get - With These Lovely Cochins? Brassy Gold?  Blue Laced Red? Something Else?

Well - I hope I am getting this in the right place --

I had tried to respond to this thread two days ago - with comments and questions about all the Blue varieties - I will look closely as to what was written after mine.  (Which didn't post as computer froze!)

So  WHAT COLOR AM I WORKING ON HERE:

I have shown one of these birds as a Red Laced Blue - The red/brown of his wings ends in blue by his body and his down is is blue.

I have also shown them both as Blue Brassy Golds and they placed as Best Variety and Reserved Best Variety in an APA show that was giving out 1sts and less even if there was only one bird of that variety showing.

I would like to

• 1) either take the fellow entered as the RedLaced BLue (the smaller, younger one on left in photos) and breed him towards more lacing (the one comment made by judge not enough lacing on front and back where he is solid blue.)  But have no idea where to get RED lacing from....
• 2) Come up with a good Color Variety name for these (or the Number two guy) and keep breeding them - as they are starting to produce reliable offspring.

The Chickens:

Please go to my Cochin color album to see more photos than the one here.

In that album the older male (on left) - is the younger one's Uncle.  The brother to the older one (father to the younger one) was same color but not Frizzled.  He (the nonFrizzled Cochin of this variety) was also shown as Brassy Gold side by side with large Frizzle Male and won best variety.

As the eggs are being hatched out in large groups in an incubator not my own - I am losing track of what color the hens are - BUT I think they are coming out sort of "silver" as some breeds would say or silver penciled.  The hatchings are producing light grey hens with penciling or even lighter grey with some orange at chest and throat.

Currently I believe the known "ancesters" to this strain is coming from a Cochin Rooster of this color being bred to a white frizzle hen or perhaps a very light blue (no penciling) frizzle hem.  I'll try to track that down and get photos as well.

Soon I hope to get everyone sorted out and color banded & pedigreed.  

But mean while - what do I call this color?  And can the other youngster start a project line of red laced blue?

If you go to my photos I have an album with several pictures.

I will be meaning to add to them and upload photos from their "chickhood" as well.

Thanks for any feedback.

I love these guys more than any solid cochin color I've seen

PS I am not sure where "Brassy Gold" came from - as I know there is a Brassy Back for some breed but although it describes the pale lacing on the head and hackles - doesn't account for the redder areas.

@MadelineHere & @ChickenHeritage if you tweet.

The color you are describing Snowflake as I remember reading about before.

Someone was breeding birds, and would get a sport that they didn't like - as it wasn't a "true white" they called it a "sooty white."

I'll be darned if I can remember though... who what when...

Also - 

I had a Splash cochin hen once which was not white - but barely barely blue with no lacing.  Kinda like old ladies hair with just a little too much blueing.  And then on this background she had a blue spashes.  She came from a mixed flock of mottled, (the kind that is not the mottling of a white tip at the end of black-  but larger and more random white splotches) blues, blacks and splashes and solid blues, and whites (and I suppose blacks.)

So I am really getting what you mean by her color.

This is why I would like to have a discussion with photos as to the variations in blue - from a hen I have that looks black (until you put her next to an actual black chicken) to this very light not quite white you are talkng about.

-- @MadelineHere

Hi MadelineHere

Your cochins are gorgeous, very cool color.  I'm not sure what to call it either.  Assessing color on frizzled birds confuses me   It might help to see pics of the hens.  If no one chimes in on this thread you might try the cochins thread.  Also, here's the link to a thread just on "blue" birds: http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/583263/the-blues-as-a-color-with-some-basic-discription-and-pictures

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coopacabana 

I have a pretty little d'uccle hen from the feed store that looks like a gold neck but she is a yellow color. What genes does she have and could she be used to create lemon millies? Or is she just a 'hatchery quality' gold neck? I love her color & want to know if I can make more or even some lemon millies.

After puzzling over both Belle and Snowflake and playing with the chicken genetics calculator I think that Snowflake is a buff bird based on partridge (eb) and diluted by either two does of blue (blue splash), or possibly more likely, a single dose of dominant white.  I *think* either splash or white would explain Belle's color.

yes, wouldn't Belle be dominant white? because isn't goldneck mille fleur with dominant white? I'm thinking belle is a goldneck with Di. However, shouldn't the lavender OEGB be homozygous extended black making Snowflake heterozygous extended black which is dominant and should therefore make her all white?

Can anybody explain her brother's coloring? 

So the OEGB is split for partridge (e^b)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coopacabana 

yes, wouldn't Belle be dominant white? because isn't goldneck mille fleur with dominant white? I'm thinking belle is a goldneck with Di.

Yes, I think Belle may have one dose of dominant white.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coopacabana 

So the OEGB is split for partridge (e^b)?

That's what I'm thinking.  It was the only explanation I could come up with that worked in the chicken calculator.  Of course, I may be missing something....