The "What Color Is My Chicken?" thread! Calling all color experts! - Page 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coopacabana 

 

This has nothing to do with my little chickens, but does the cha gene have an effect on the golden yellow leakage in lavenders? Since true black or bronze has gold leakage,  wouldn't lavender on bronze have that yellow leakage (besides what is caused by sunlight and corn)

Yes he would. Leakage in blacks usually occurs in crosses and is only stabilized in two landraces. It can occur either when you have E/E; cha/cha; Co;co, or simply E/E, or E/e+.

      Quote:

Originally Posted by Meara 

After puzzling over both Belle and Snowflake and playing with the chicken genetics calculator I think that Snowflake is a buff bird based on partridge (eb) and diluted by either two does of blue (blue splash), or possibly more likely, a single dose of dominant white.  I *think* either splash or white would explain Belle's color.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk69 

She is a millefleur that also carries dominant white. This has a similar effect on the groundcolor as the "lemon" gene (ig/ig) has, but it can not be used to create a lemon millefleur.

I had that figured out correctly.  Whoo hoo!  I'm so excited!!! 

What do I win?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducks and Banny hens 

Yes it would. Lavender does not mess around with the Pattern, but it dilutes both Color Types. So a Bronze Isabel would be Self Blue (mostly) with the the Gold areas diluted to the cream shade of Isabels. I don't think anyone has ever bred this color, and I'm not sure what Lavender would do with the Bronze tones in the cocks' Saddles.

 Bronze Isabel? Yikes, you lost me.  I understand what color isabel is, but what is bronze isabel?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coopacabana 

This is what i was talking about:
 

 

I wouldn't (want to encourage you to) call it bronze.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducks and Banny hens 

True-Black (as seen in Stara fowl and Bow Lake fowl) with only one genetic change from wildtype (the E gene), look like Black Copper with yet more of an advance of black. True-Black is also called Gold Birchen (incorrect) or Bronze (correct). The Hackles of a cock are groundcolor, as are the shoulders. The Saddles may have such vague ground leakage that they look bronze (hence the term Bronze). Every where else is black, and the hens are almost total black, with the exception that elder hens develope the odd ground-color fleck here and there by the hackles. Self Black (much more common) is True Black with Recessive Black (cha/cha). This isn't passed onto the offspring in a cross, so in theory, a cross between Black and a colored bird would result in (in most cases) Phenotype Bronze birds.

I agree with Henk. The color bronze is not used in the literature- there are enough color descriptions flowing around in the world of chicken fanciers.

I am not trying to be a jerk but there are some inaccuracies in your post.

The classical nomenclature for the wild type allele is written as e+ ( with the + a superscript) or as E*N. The E allele is extended black or E*E . Both the wild type and extended black alleles are found at the E locus. 

Gold Birchen or brown red are used to describe a male bird that is homozygous birchen and homozygous gold; females will be homozygous birchen and hemizygous gold. The french use the term black copper. I have never seen the term bronze in the literature but I have seen the term gold birchen.

Recessive black- I have not seen any research on recessive black. Punnett used the term recessive black but was confusing recessive black with the incompletely dominant melanotic gene or a similar gene. . Charcoal is a dominant gene that acts similar to the melanotic gene.  

Black is as bad as white when it comes to the genetics of the birds. Black birds can be carry many different genes and still be black. 

Tim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk69 

 

I wouldn't (want to encourage you to) call it bronze.

Thanks, so I should call it true black? 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meara 

 

      Quote:

Originally Posted by Meara 

After puzzling over both Belle and Snowflake and playing with the chicken genetics calculator I think that Snowflake is a buff bird based on partridge (eb) and diluted by either two does of blue (blue splash), or possibly more likely, a single dose of dominant white.  I *think* either splash or white would explain Belle's color.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk69 

She is a millefleur that also carries dominant white. This has a similar effect on the groundcolor as the "lemon" gene (ig/ig) has, but it can not be used to create a lemon millefleur.

I had that figured out correctly.  Whoo hoo!  I'm so excited!!! 

What do I win?

Official Expert Status lol

Expert chicken color analysers? I have an EE ckl here. He is nine months old and the black in him is actually blue but it is hard to see unless you are right up next to him.   I will post his biological sister in a new post as I just tried to do that here and lost the whole post.

His mama is a blue wheaton Ameraucana (pure).

His daddy is a (gold duckwing?) phoenix. All I know is that the person got him from McMurray and they breed their gold duckwing and silvers together. It says that right in their catalog. And she told me he was a gold duckwing,,,so,,,?

I would love to hear what you think his phenotype and genptype is. I am just starting to become more interested in this breeding and genes. (I suppose I should buy that book)  :)

Well here he is.

Thanks in advance

PS   He has a pea comb, but it is large. He is not used to being penned so he is a bit on alert here.

This is his biological sister. She doesn't appear to have any blue in her. She also has a pea comb and a small amount of muffs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tadkerson 

 

I agree with Henk. The color bronze is not used in the literature- there are enough color descriptions flowing around in the world of chicken fanciers.

 

I am not trying to be a jerk but there are some inaccuracies in your post.

 

The classical nomenclature for the wild type allele is written as e+ ( with the + a superscript) or as E*N. The E allele is extended black or E*E . Both the wild type and extended black alleles are found at the E locus. 

 

Gold Birchen or brown red are used to describe a male bird that is homozygous birchen and homozygous gold; females will be homozygous birchen and hemizygous gold. The french use the term black copper. I have never seen the term bronze in the literature but I have seen the term gold birchen.

 

Recessive black- I have not seen any research on recessive black. Punnett used the term recessive black but was confusing recessive black with the incompletely dominant melanotic gene or a similar gene. . Charcoal is a dominant gene that acts similar to the melanotic gene.  

 

Black is as bad as white when it comes to the genetics of the birds. Black birds can be carry many different genes and still be black. 

 

Tim

Sorry for inadvertently causing confusion... I did not mean to suggest that true black be called Gold Birchen, but I was trying to point out that some call it that, but calling it Gold Birchen is incorrect and causes confusion.

About Recessive black.. I should have mentioned that some believe that Bronze is E/E; Co/Co.

i.e. that would explain why when say, a Black Giant is crossed with a New Hampshire, the offspring almost always look bronze (however - I agree that I don't know of any testing that has been done to find out whether Self Black carries a Melanizer, or if Bronze carries a Restrictor. Some sources can't seem to even agree on whether E is dominant or Incompletely dominant.